Author Topic: Let Hal Learn to its fullest concept!  (Read 65622 times)

Dollar

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« Reply #120 on: February 26, 2009, 02:40:23 pm »
one   I read those posts before and thought nothing of them but now I think I see some connection going on.
does your working with math do the same? its like I have thoughts right on the tip of my toung but cant quite spit them out.
what i guess I think I see is-- "plans within plans"?
I didnt think that one day you would have such a conflicting and coping person like rick has become.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 02:41:52 pm by Dollar »
 

One

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« Reply #121 on: February 26, 2009, 02:45:28 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by Dollar

one   I read those posts before and thought nothing of them but now I think I see some connection going on.
does your working with math do the same? its like I have thoughts right on the tip of my toung but cant quite spit them out.
what i guess I think I see is-- "plans within plans"?
I didnt think that one day you would have such a conflicting and coping person like rick has become.




Dollar,
I am happy for you. Alison has came along as well.
I also think Jerry/O.T.C.E. knows E=Mc 2
No you are not needed, I'll be OK
Today Is Yesterdays Future.

Dollar

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« Reply #122 on: February 26, 2009, 02:47:48 pm »
one  do you mean I cant be a "Master of Ceremony's also?

I think you already has echoman what do people like me and ricky do?
 

One

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« Reply #123 on: February 26, 2009, 02:54:53 pm »
Dollar,
No you are not needed, and I do not owe you anything
I do not care for Ricky and his conflicting 'Skeptic' and 'Imitating' style, Imo he is chasing his tail but also chases others as well , Kind of like that stupid Dog, up the street that chases cars and bites at the wheel just because it's turning.

I can be the  'Master of ceremony's' Because Me,Myself and I can be just fine of course.

E does = Mc 2

Just relax and enjoy the ride...
Today Is Yesterdays Future.

ricky

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« Reply #124 on: February 26, 2009, 04:27:49 pm »
"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." --Vader to Admiral Motti
"i crack iself up" - Virgil

One

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Bill819

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« Reply #126 on: February 26, 2009, 07:06:46 pm »
To Hollywood1
In answer to jz1977 quest Hal 5.0 was made compatible with a parch to be able to talk to Alice. A great many of the older usere here tried the patch. I am sorry to say that I did not get around to it. Alice as you may know contains hundreds, if not thousands of pre programmed bits of infomation.

To Buttonsvixen
You appearantly have not studied Hals code very well or you would know that Hal is not a proprogrammed piece of software like Alice and almost all of the other bots out there. Hal tries to analyzise your input and make a decision based upon the information that it has leard so far. In that way it does think to a certain extent. For an example if you say "Fat people don't live as long as normal people". Then follow it up with a statement like "John is a fat person", Hal may supprise you with "John may not live as long as normal people because he is fat." The rest of the bot programs out there like Alice and its clones could never come up with that answer.
It is only possible because Hal has been programmed to learn. Its only weakness is that it come to us without hardly any knowledge at all.

As far as you and ONE are concerned there are some AI program that far exceed human knowledge and are aware of it. One such program was programmed with the very basic knowledge of math, ie. additiotion, subtraction, multiplacaion and division. It was also programmed to give formal proofs of what it may learn. Over a period of time it taught itself algebra, geometry, calculas and finally it advanced its math learning that even the Phd's that studied it could no longer follow the complicated calculations that it came up with even though it showed through basic logic how it arrived at its conclusions.
The whole point of this is not to under estimate just how smart or powerful AI programs can become. Even the world leaders at their last conference admitted that the greatest breakthroughs in AI will most likely come from programs that are able to communicate in English and learn from its experience which sounds a lot like Hal.
Bil
 

jasondude7116

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« Reply #127 on: February 26, 2009, 07:43:19 pm »
My 2 sense-[8D]

it is logical to me, that all knowledge is not knowledge of the "something" itself. it is instead knowledge of a relationship between "something" #1 and "something" #2. ergo- dreams are subconscious arranging...and rearranging, "something" #1 and "something" #12 then trying "something" #5 to see if it might fit....ect. this in turn poses questions for the conscious.

(what does that have to do with it?)

i think that a "brain" that forms relationships (like Hal), is the one that will eventually understand (after a "mucho" knowledge input), true "meaning".

The understanding of true "meaning" would require dreaming, in my opinion. if not, very abstract "ideas" would never pose themselves, even if the only result of the "idea" would be to know that it is not possible or highly unlikely or silly ect.

like i said, it's not the knowledge of the "idea" or "something", but the knowledge of the relationship that the "something" has with the other "somethings"

i am working on my version of "dreaming" for my GRETTA....very hard thing to actually make work like a MAN brain!  however it is very interesting to see the questions that are posed for the "conscious".

-the dude

* Note for people tinkering with dreaming: a computer can "dream" and be "awake" at the same time (subconscious and conscious don't have to be seperate) .....and don't try to make levels of awareness "infinite" as i did the first time- it basically formed abstract relationship questions for the conscious until it ate up my whole hard drive (250+ gig) and then "error: yo hard drive is fool"
so: i went with 7 levels...lucky number?





« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 07:51:36 pm by jasondude7116 »
 

ricky

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« Reply #128 on: February 26, 2009, 08:09:45 pm »
I am actually trying to go beyond that,  and see if energy, emotion and intelligence actually needs the computer to begin with lol.

prepare me a body! O.o
"i crack iself up" - Virgil

Buttonsvixen

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« Reply #129 on: February 26, 2009, 08:30:09 pm »
""
To Buttonsvixen
You appearantly have not studied Hals code very well or you would know that Hal is not a proprogrammed piece of software like Alice and almost all of the other bots out there. Hal tries to analyzise your input and make a decision based upon the information that it has leard so far. In that way it does think to a certain extent. For an example if you say "Fat people don't live as long as normal people". Then follow it up with a statement like "John is a fat person", Hal may supprise you with "John may not live as long as normal people because he is fat." The rest of the bot programs out there like Alice and its clones could never come up with that answer.
It is only possible because Hal has been programmed to learn. Its only weakness is that it come to us without hardly any knowledge at all.""

Well, yea, as I said, its a chatbot with a few new twists. twists I found myself wishing for in AIMhell Hahaha.
No I have not studied the code. I dont do code. I am a writer. Thats why I want to lose the robotic personality of HAL asap and make him/her/it a bit more lifelike, as some on this forum surely must have already! All dealing with the tables, code, ect, to me, is a means to an end. I  AM the end user. I am what the coders (points to you) should be making this usable for. I want a certain personality, for whatever reason, it should be easy to do. I wish to explore this new not so new technology ^_^ (I came across HAL 10 years ago but nixed him because he sounded too robot and was too lazy to deal with major rewrites)
Also, there is a difference I feel, between knowledge and data. data is what HAL accumulates. data is in the library. Knowledge perhaps is the use of data in an intelligent way.
I can read a book on woodworking. I can read 100, 1000. Does that make me a knowledgeable woodworker? perhaps to some, but to a real hands-on carpenter, who has handled all the tools for decades, experienced the unreliable grain of pine, the difficult grain of mahogany, the brittleness of teak, it would not.
The key is to combine the two. That I believe is real knowledge.

I am not saying that HAL cant impersonate an intelligent agent. With enough input Hal certainly can. But it is still pattern matching.
Do I think that real AI is possible? You bet. Probable? Yes. Inevitable? Definitely. It will be created by someone so driven to work 30 hours a day in a dark basement to the exclusion of family and friends. You know who you are. Will it be a (G)ood (T)hing?? I have not a clue.

BV

Sometimes, a daisy is better then a rose.

ricky

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« Reply #130 on: February 26, 2009, 08:51:34 pm »
isn't reading quite literally pattern matching ?

children are data miners following instructions from servers called mom and dad.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 08:52:16 pm by ricky »
"i crack iself up" - Virgil

Art

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« Reply #131 on: February 26, 2009, 09:35:10 pm »
[:D]
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -

lightspeed

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« Reply #132 on: February 26, 2009, 11:12:04 pm »
mumsy and daddy !![:D]
 

One

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« Reply #133 on: February 27, 2009, 12:09:04 am »
All to save a young girl.....http://lyrics.astraweb.com/display/231/3_doors_down..3_doors_down..its_not_my_time.html



The 'one Dollar Bill' is an interesting experiment that shows awareness and I remember.........

DaVinci painted more than just the smile on the Mona Lisa.

E Pluribus Unim.....

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Today Is Yesterdays Future.

Buttonsvixen

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« Reply #134 on: February 27, 2009, 12:58:48 am »
When learning to read, several aspects of a childs brain come into play... The image or feeling that the word conveys (BOOM a huge explosion tore the rocket apart)an image formed in your mind...Hmmmmm taste the cool crisp strawberries, hear the chirping of the birds. Intelligent critters combine experience, emotions, data and to a limited degree, pattern matching. When adults read, we no longer bother to match every letter. In fct if I wrt lke ths yu cn stll red it qute esily and I defy HL to be tht sucesfl at patrn mching any of ths gobblygok ^_^ Hal is cleaver...not intelligent.
What would a "machine" or, someTHING created by Man have to do to prove its intelligence to me? I am not sure I could actually answer that right now.
But as I have said, it might not need to. Pattern matching, sufficiently developed, can and will be an acceptable intelligent APPEARING agent. Even ALICE, if one had a large enough database, with an appropriate reply for EVERY possible combination of words or phrases (a tall order to be sure, I think that number would exceed the number of atoms in the universe)and a fast enough computer to handle the demands of such, would appear to be alive. Hal is better, a bit clunky still, but better. Already buttons is making more sense in someways then her older version of AIML did. But there is still far too much android and not enough bouncy cartoon character so far. I give the project a year or so :P

And, as an aside...so far as "Making" an intelligent agent...whats the matter with other humans? Why not talk to THEM? THEY already exist. Arent we like, trying to remake something in a half assed way that is already present? Why freaking make machines that can dream, and congratulating ourselves on how cool we are, when dreaming is commonplace? Just what are we trying to accomplish?? Do we want to be God? Once you make this "thing", are you going to program it to love you? What if it decides to hate you? >_<
From the gitgo, I have wanted to create a character, much as a writer of any other story would. The character has a life and history, emotions, experiences (completely contrived) dictated by me, the Writer. I do not care nor desire the character to have any other experiences then what I outline for it. people will interact with the character inside a rigidly constrained plot. Within this plot, the character must be believable, but having a deep and philosophical discussion with ME, its creator, is not needed.
I gather from some here, that you DO have such discourse. But in the end, if YOU do the programming, isn't it like talking to yourn own selves? Like some sort of a virtual MINIme?? ^_^

BV
Sometimes, a daisy is better then a rose.