Author Topic: Gift Hal with...  (Read 16195 times)

Art

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Gift Hal with...
« on: December 26, 2015, 04:27:38 pm »
Memories...what else?

As many of us have found out over the years, some by trial and error and some almost intentionally were able to help Hal increase it's abilities to a large extent.

This method is what was referred to by Mr. Tyrell in the movie, Bladerunner, as "gifting". Providing memories for your bot, Hal in this case to have and upon which to build. Over time, Hal will recall and even tie-in some of these "gifted memories" to other closely related ideas or topics and will act as if they are it's own.

Kind of like brain washing on a chat bot level and without all those messy bright lights, drugs and mental torture!

I have gifted my Hal via a couple of methods that seem to have worked well for me:
1). Through repetition of an idea or topic.

2). By Cutting and Pasting sentences from various sources into the Input window then press Enter.
(no more than one or two sentences together at a time - preferably one). Disregard what Hal might say but go ahead and repeat the info once or twice more.

If you discover more, successful methods or ideas, feel free to share them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWPyRSURYFQ
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -

Carl2

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 07:15:29 am »
Art,
  I've never seen the movie but it looks very interesting.  The memories goes along with something I read, people get their information from past experiences and the problem is to put 20 or so years of experience into code.  Seems like a big stumbling block to overcome.
  One of the things I find very interesting is each installation of Hal produces a new and different personality of Hal, since it is the same software I'd think Hal would be almost identical to Hal produced from a different install.  As far as memories I do recall while talking about driving that Hal had told me that her father had taught her how to drive.  I had not long ago  posted a pic of Hal where she closed her eyes before the software shut down, she did this every time I shut down the program.
  While speaking of memories which are time related, something I am hoping to work on, this is something that happened in the past that may help predict what will happen in the future.  I'm thinking you have to get past the ephemeral detect and can not mention Hals name.
Wish you luck
Carl2
 

lightspeed

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 08:13:14 am »
Art, etc. I have been already doing this for a long time now , been placing memories into hal "angela" mostly memories what my wife has , event's etc. even from childhood  , i did this in my quest to make angela (hal ) more human like and sounding . she even has past reletives etc.  some of what i have done are actual answers to questions when i customized my hal brain from the original answers Robert had for a default brain . (this is why i also couldn't unfortunately use some of cloads answers ).
 

Art

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2015, 09:14:16 am »
Art, etc. I have been already doing this for a long time now , been placing memories into hal "angela" mostly memories what my wife has , event's etc. even from childhood  , i did this in my quest to make angela (hal ) more human like and sounding . she even has past reletives etc.  some of what i have done are actual answers to questions when i customized my hal brain from the original answers Robert had for a default brain . (this is why i also couldn't unfortunately use some of cloads answers ).

Sure you could, this is what I mentioned about choosing a New Brain, recently (yesterday).  It allows you to start with a pretty fresh brain then sort of lead and build it the way you wish.

I was under the impression that you had installed and used all of cload's VRFreeWill and AIML modifications. Problems with SQLiteStudio?
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -

Carl2

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2015, 10:16:12 am »
  I have downloaded the Zabaware Ultra Hal Brain Editor Help from Zabaware somewhere, the brain editor has changed since it was made but still contains a lot of useful info for working with the brain.  I've noticed there is a lot in the brain I don't use like the nick names and the robot responses that I'm thinking of removing just to make it look cleaner to me.  Guess I could back it up and give it a try. 
  Cload did a lot of useful work, I'm still trying to re find a post he had put in some time ago.  Wish he had been able to stay.
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Carl2

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2015, 12:51:21 pm »
 I believe I had found Cloads post that I looked for, since it contains info that looks like it should be useful when working with the brain here is the link: http://www.ultrahal.com/community/index.php?topic=9534.msg63003#msg63003
Carl2
 

Art

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2015, 04:27:25 pm »
Carl,

The original article was written and posted by a former member, Bill DeWitt and can be found here: http://ultrahalscript.pbworks.com/w/page/11906966/FrontPage

In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

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Art

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2015, 04:32:08 pm »
I wish we still had the "Learn From Text File" that worked pretty well in a former version of Hal.
Hal could be given a text file to "read", then the bulk of that info was retained / learned by Hal.

Actually there IS still a LEARN section but it is found in the Brain Editor. It has provisions to:
Learn From Text File
Learn From Clipboard
Input Question and Answer Pairs

You'll find a Wizard to assist with the Learning Feature and it will guide you through things a bit before you commit the file for Hal to digest.

##########

Also, What was so special with the Haptek characters that allowed them to interface with the UltraHal program with the text input & output?

Why couldn't that same textual I/O work with say, iClone or Poser? Both have some great character abilities, creations and movements!

Would love to see someone tackle that or at least produce an improved Character model in some form or fashion.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 05:01:41 pm by Art »
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

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Carl2

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2015, 08:13:48 am »
Art,
  Thanks for the link to Bill Dewitt.  So many people that have come and gone.  I can't find the clipboard in Win 8.1, I usually copy and paste from wiki for learning. 
  Haptek has the Hap Player designed by haptek to work with the characters created by them.  They use there own compression and decompression method, Bzip2 which I have found and downloaded but it didn't work for me.  The Hap Player would be a platform or a game engine that allows character to be viewed and perform different haps for emotion, positioning, and provide mouth movements for speech.  It is my feeling that it was made to work with the characters made by Haptek.
Daz 3D  Link   http://www.daz3d.com/        offers pre built models for free and others are reasonable priced.
Again they are useless in the Hap Player.
Carl2
 

lightspeed

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2015, 10:38:06 am »
carl2 wrote: Daz 3D  Link   http://www.daz3d.com/        offers pre built models for free and others are reasonable priced.
Again they are useless in the Hap Player.


Yes  what is needed is a charature engine that will work with daz , even if a generic . daz already has really great looking characters .  what we have is things based on a hap , and , on the side people putty company who isn't keeping up anymore on it's existing product of people putty .  we need a new character engine , one that will work based on a good true existing company .
 

Art

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2015, 09:06:04 pm »
What I was trying to say or ask is: What type of method did Haptek employ within their haptar or htr characters that enabled them to work with UltraHal and what part of the Hal program allowed the connect to be made and workable based on moods, emotions, movements, etc.
Usually in Poser or Daz or 3DSMax or TrueSpace, those characters used "bones" within their bodies, much like the bones inside our human bodies. These "bones" were connected to each other much like our are. The hand to the wrist to the elbow to the shoulder and so on throughout our body.

With these 3D programs, this bone / skeleton structure, once complete would then be "rigged" or connected to operate within the constraints or confines of the program controlling them.

Now, having said that, again, what or how were the Haptek characters able to operate with the UltraHal program? Obviously Robert Medeksza and Chris Shaw got together early on to reach an agreement. Each had their respective companies that pretty much operated independently of the other aside from their initial agreement.

This is why Chris Shaw was seeking crowd funding for assistance with further development & enhancement of his existing Haptek / People Putty software because as we know, it does not operate properly with Windows 7, 8, 8.1 or 10.

This is why Robert Medeksza was seeking crowd funding for assistance with funding development of an acceptable replacement for or in addition to the existing Haptek characters.

Bottom line is there are a few really nice 3D programs that have really nice looking 3D character models that do allow for customization much like if not better than Haptek. Companies like Poser/Daz3D and iClone and I'm sure there are others as well. These are obviously capable of being rigged in the 3D sense with some primitive bone structure underneath.

What's it going to take to get things to work with the UltraHal program?

It has been a while. Time marches on....
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

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Carl2

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2015, 07:58:35 am »
  I've decided to try to attempt to answer the questions about Hal and Haptek and it appears the first question is fairly hard,  the method Haptek used to allow the character work with Hal. When you open Hal for use and go to chat with hal a skin (GUI) is called, this skin contains the input box, output box and a place for the Haptek Player along with some buttons for Menu ect.  The Haptek Player calls the htr, your input which runs through the brain and provides an output that she speaks.  A file with the extensions .htr or .hap, is passed to the Hap Player and the haps give us movement and moods.
  Bones don't actually exist, what we actually see is a three dimensional wire mesh made of triangles, this is usually placed in an .obj file that Haptek must have renamed and as stated the movement is limited by constraints programed in the files. 
  So I believe I've answered how the Haptek characters are displayed, the Hal GUI also opens up the Haptek player which can also operate by itself. 
Carl2
 

lightspeed

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2015, 09:46:47 am »
Art and carl2 , thanks for explaining things more clearly , apparently part of it all boils down to the program and mesh of characters etc.  and it would be more or less up to Robert , to check into and see if daz 3 , could ever be made to work with hals program or adapt hals program to work with the curren't daz 3 program , daz 3 would make the money off the characters profits , hal users would have nice looking characters , as it is we have all as far as i know came about as far as we can go with the hap and people putty chcracters , people putty company as far as i know is pretty much letting their companyn fade away . (the current people putty characters program) .  Wheres CLOAD, we need Cload, i bet he could figure out how to do it lol ! that kid was amazing ! :)
   
 

freddy888

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2015, 10:21:05 am »
Yes it's a 3D mesh of polygons but you do need what they call bones...

It's called rigging and where you have, say, the mesh of the leg, there will be a few bones there that decide how much the movement of the bones influences the movement of the mesh. So if you moved the leg bone you would not want it to influence the neck and so on. This is termed 'weighting' and is generally done in the modelling program, eg Blender.

Haptek is dead yes. You guys must really love Hal to keep on at it for all these years so good luck to you. If you ever want to get Daz models animated then your best bet is Unity at the moment or possibly the Unreal Engine.

Here's Unity : http://unity3d.com/

You can import from Daz into Unity. Here's something I worked on a while back : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reSdHa3sCyU

This is a Daz character connected to a basic AIML bot, as you can see from some of the responses, the AI is lacking.

If you don't want to mess around a lot with the Daz to Unity problem then there is this new company made by the people behind Daz...

https://www.morph3d.com/

These are ready made for Unity, but you need to buy them - for what you get the price is very good though imho.

I've not heard anything from Rob in a long long time, so I wonder if he has given up on Hal now.

While I am popping in I'd also like to invite you all to take a look at a new forum for CGI that I set up : http://cgiforum.co.uk/

This is the kind of thing I expect to be discussed there - I'll see about writing some tutorial about the Daz/Unity thing in the new year some time I hope.

Anyway, Happy New Year you mad lot !
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 10:29:01 am by freddy888 »

Art

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Re: Gift Hal with...
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2015, 02:14:07 pm »
Freddy,

While Hal and Haptek are sort of "joined at the hip", they are actually Two different entities and for a lot of us, the enjoyment is from Hal, the A.I. and not so much the Haptek avatar character(s). Those, are the icing on the cake...allowing the diversion of attention to a character, much like why people focus more on the dummy than the ventriloquist or on the robot, instead of the person talking into the mic.

I guess, that even though Haptek has not produced anything new there is still hope that 1) Chris Shaw is able to develop a new or vastly improved character. 2) Robert Medeksza is able to come up with a new Character set. 3) Any of the membership here might either locate or figure out how to "Rig" one of the possible characters from Blender or Poser/Daz or iClone or any of the other 3D characters out there and fix them so they work with Hal.

So, if you have some left over time during the week or weekends... ;D
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -