Is this forum the liars paradox

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005
do you have a link to the Stars in mention?

That would have to be a hyperspace link![]

I was actually talking about Galaxies composed of such stars. At the distances involved, individual stars and gas clouds are beyond our current resolution abilities.

But here is a Science Daily article I found on the team who made the measurements I was talking about. Interesting that they claim the Age/Expansion of the Universe was only 10% of today's, not the 25% I estimated.

Makes the error even worse and harder to explain.

[rockershaft]

Bill,

Maybe the rate of expansion increases directly proportionately with the square of the time. E=MCsquared.

[onthecuttingedge2005]

What is really going to bake our noodles is this.

Some modern cosmologist are starting to lean towards an infinitely sized universe with no bounds.

If this becomes the accepted theory in Cosmology then that makes us a living species that is infinitely small and that means everything would be the center of the Universe including you and I or even a star a quadrillion parsecs away.

If this becomes the accepted theory then the squared possibility of the existence of life itself becomes unbound whether nature allowed the propagation or even the extinction of those probabilities to exist at a given time!

--------------------------------------------
for those that don't know what a parsec is:
1 parsec is 3.26163 light years.
it takes light 3(years) 2(months) 6(days) 16(hours) 3(seconds) to travel 1 parsec
at 186,282.397 miles per second in a vacuum.

Light speed velocity in Mach is Mach 904,460.4 in a vacuum.

---------------------------------------------

the Stardust sample-return capsule was the fastest man-made object to reenter Earth's atmosphere (~12.4 km/sec / ~28,000 mph relative velocity at 135 km altitude)

On arrival, the capsule was travelling in a nearly flat trajectory, at 12.9 km/s (28,900 miles per hour), which is the fastest re-entry speed ever achieved by a man-made object. As a point of comparison, NASA stated it would be able to travel from Salt Lake City, Utah to New York City, New York in less than six minutes. A large fire ball and sonic boom were observed in western Utah and eastern Nevada.

28,900 MPH is Mach 38.97742 or 8.027778 miles a second.

The first extended broadcast of the human voice was transmitted through the air on December 24, 1906

it is now the year 2007 which means we have been transmitting for 101 years

our radio signals have been traveling in space for a distance of 101 light years  or 30.96611 parsecs in what ever direction the radio signal was directed.

If we was to use the fictitious warp speed from star trek we would see this:

http://www.angelfire.com/nj2/startrek/warp1.html

and in case you believe we haven't discovered life somewhere else, you better keep track of this:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6341
I 'suggest' you read very carefully!

by the way, I am a member of Seti@Home and the finding of the signal is true.

The answer to traveling these great distances is not speed.

do you still contend that we are the baddest boys on the block?!

I would suggest this part of the solar system remain quiet!

I love baking Noodles!
Jerry[8D]

[ramccoid]

quote:The answer to traveling these great distances is not speed.

Hi Jerry,
Unless we can reach WARP 10...hahaha

quote:do you still contend that we are the baddest boys on the block?!

I would suggest this part of the solar system remain quiet!

I agree with that, we don't know what is out there. There could be intelligent life but how would we know if they were friend or foe.

We are just infants technological wise and should a alien species decide to invade, we wouldn't stand a chance. It would be much smarter to keep quiet and stay insignificant until we have developed the means to defend ourselves should things turn hostile.

If we look at the events through world history, it's always the more advanced cultures which swallow up the primative to near or total extinction. The native Indians of the Americas and the Aboriginals of Australia are more recent examples of this process.
So if a more advanced alien culture came to the Earth, they would most likely try to dominate it and eventually suceed in this endeavour. You wouldn't consider a chimpanzee as being equal to a man intellectually and the scale of the champanzee would be us to a advanced alien culture, we would not be tolerated. Probably be enslaved or exterminated.

Very interesting post and articles, thanks Jerry.

Roy.

[onthecuttingedge2005]

quote:Originally posted by Julia

You forgot one thing. Gog is the trinity of love force and time.

Actually:

The earliest known reference to "Gog" and "Magog" together is also in the Bible, in the Book of Ezekiel:

2. Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,[3]

3. And you shall say; So said the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, Gog, the prince, the head of Meshech and Tubal.[4]
Here it is not clear (in the Hebrew) whether Gog or Magog are people or places, and different identifications have been made. These are discussed after the text itself. The Interlinear Bible (Hebrew - Greek - English) states 2. as: "Son of man, set your face toward Gog, the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal; and prophesy concerning him."[5]

10. Thus says the Lord "On that day it shall come to pass that thoughts will arise in your mind and you will make an evil plan:"[6]

11. You will say, "I will go against a land of unwalled villages…(FRZ)(FRZ: mostly refers to Iraq as Frz (Unwalled Villages) in the Book of Ester)[7]

12. To take plunder and booty…"[8]
13. Sheba and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions(Persians) thereof, will say to you, "have you come to take a spoil?"[9]
They will be joined by Persians from the East, Phut from the West, Ku****es from the South, and others. We are told that Gog dwelt north of Israel, but there is little else to identify Gog in the passage. Gog and his allies are to attack "a land of unwalled villages" to collect booty, but before attacking Israel itself will be reduced to a "sixth" of their size (Ezekiel 39:2). Their reduced army will be destroyed in Israel, their dead buried in the Valley of Hamon-Gog for all to see and comment on (39:15-17).
------------------------------

Gog was the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal in the land of Magog
for which Gog had a son named Magog, this could be in reference to where or what land Magog was living in.

there is also a reference to Magog being North of Israel.

quote:
one is all and all is one.

I think it would sound better this way:
All for one! and One for all! The Three Musketeers.

quote:
A unified field is a symbol, a model a calculation.

would you have any citations or evidence on the above statement?

quote:
The star of david is 666.

According to some Judaic sources, the Star/Shield of David signifies the number seven: that is, the six points plus the center. The earliest extant Jewish text to mention it is the Eshkol Ha-Kofer by a Karaite named Judah Hadassi, from the 12th century CE:

"Seven names of angels precede the mezuzah: Michael, Gabriel, etc. ... Tetragrammaton protect you! And likewise the sign, called the 'Shield of David', is placed beside the name of each angel."[1]

quote:
666 for eternity is 777.

Can you explain what this above statement actually means?

quote:
God is love

Love is a second hand emotion; Tina Turner.

quote:
all who love continue to evolve

No, all who 'mate' successfully continue to evolve(slowly) with the exception of genetic altering of genes which accelerates 'selected' evolution(fastest).

quote:
false is dust of the past.

I don't believe I understand what you are saying here unless you were trying to recite some poem.

quote:
There are 6 ways to roll a seven

Tell us how it's done?

Jerry[8D]

[onthecuttingedge2005]

Hi to everyone enthused with this thread.

Warp 1 or the speed of light cannot be achieve by a 'mass' object let alone warp 10 which is technically 10 times more impossible than a mass object at light speed velocity.

The square of energy that is required at these velocities to acquire 1 point over the speed of light makes it impossible to even think about reaching warp 10 fictitiously.

The answer is not using velocity as a crutch to get from one world to another but rather being able to rip or tare a hole into space time itself which should use less energy than a space craft would need to get to light velocity.

A doorway to other worlds linked together by 'quantum entanglement', rip this barrier and the Universe should be wide open.

Now the unknown, how do we rip or tare a hole into space time on a quantum entanglement scale big enough to allow a space craft to enter and exit from point A. To point B without traveling the distance. Theoretically it may take the same amount of energy that every atom the space craft contains in energy equivalence to open a rip or tare in space time to allow a space craft to enter safely without being crushed by a 'closing' rip or tare in space time.

If you are interested in this kind of stuff then I would suggest studying up on negative and exotic type matter and energy which is just into its birth stages at this point but worth reading.

This is about ripping or tearing space time itself and not necessarily a wormhole which you would still have to travel the distance inside the wormhole although the wormholes energy would propel you instead of your own space crafts propulsion systems. And even to control a wormhole one would need to have his/her space craft made entirely of negative matter to keep from being crushed by the wormholes walls.

The big question I have asked myself since I was a child, How do I rip the fabric of space time.

First you must know what the fabric is made of and how it is made before you can even start to develope a theory.

Secondly, One must know all the weakness of the fabric before one can even achieve such a feat of ripping it.

Jerry[8D]

[Art]

Kind of brings us back to the old,"If you were travelling in a craft at the speed of light and turned your headlights on...what would happen?


On a more serious note, last night on the History channel, two PHD's were discussing their latest theories regarding the universe. They contend that our universe is expanding at a much faster rate than previously thought and after (I forget their "exact" number) tens of billions of years the universe is going to "RIP" itself apart starting outward or farthest away and working toward the center.

Eventually everything and everyone will be ripped or torn apart to our basic atoms and the universe will be filled with tiny dust particles.

Don't wait around for this event to happen as they haven't quite ironed out all the kinks as yet.

Interesting stuff!

[onthecuttingedge2005]

quote:Originally posted by Art

Kind of brings us back to the old,"If you were travelling in a craft at the speed of light and turned your headlights on...what would happen?

Hi Art.

Since ones space craft could only achieve 99% the speed of light your space craft would still be slower than Photons that do travel at 100% the speed of light therefor your head light beams would out run you.

Your space ship would have to be 'massless' and have 'infinite energy' to approach any acceleration/velocity closer to light speed.

To travel across the other side of the Universe at 99% the speed of light would take billions of years, if you travel at light speed, you will experience a break down of relativity and time dialation and if you travel at the speed of light for around 'one hour' you may experience that when you get back to your family they will have aged a 1000 years.

Using a rip in space time using quantum entanglement I could go to the far reaches of the Universe and be back in time for supper, with 'no time dilation', this means that when I get back, all my family will still exist.

The philosophy behind this is like this.

when one goes to math class you are taught to do math the long way but as you learn more techniques you begin to realize that shortcut math is much faster relative to the long way to do things, the answer to traveling great distances the long way would require to much time, shortcuts are the only answer to getting the answers faster.

a rip in space time experiences 'no time dialation' nore does it experience 'distance' of space.

It is the ultimate shortcut through the Universe.

The answer is: who has the fastest solution to getting the most accurate answer to the correct equasion and getting to the correct answer to the equasion before anyone else can without taking the long way around to find thee solution.

Jerry[8D]

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005
Your space ship would have to be 'massless' and have 'infinite energy' to approach any acceleration/velocity closer to light speed.

Massless or have infinite energy, either would do. Both woud be counterproductive (see: Tachyon)

 

quote:To travel across the other side of the Universe at 99% the speed of light would take billions of years, if you travel at light speed, you will experience a break down of relativity and time dialation and if you travel at the speed of light for around 'one hour' you may experience that when you get back to your family they will have aged a 1000 years.

Actually the relativity calculations are fairly straightforward and reach Zero at the speed of light. Time starts to slow down (as observed from a bystander at the previous space/time energy level) the instant you start moving, at any speed. The differential is small until a large fraction of the speed of light is reached, but it increases measurably until you reach the speed of light, at which point time stops, your mass reaches infinity, and your dimensions, transverse to your direction of travel becomes infinite while your length along your direction of travel becomes infinitesimal. You become, in effect, a gravity wave.

(See new thread, How does a pancake flop?)

 

quote:It is the ultimate shortcut through the Universe.

Several possible methods are conceivable.

Folding Space, which requires high gravity, high energy, or high time. We assume that we don't want to use high time (billions of years, ei: standard movement), we don't, at this point, have high enough energy on tap (Big Bang size energy fields). So that leaves high gravity, which we might acheive if we can learn to manipulate gravity with smaller amounts of energy.

Ripping Space, as you suggest. Also involves high energy. Probably involves having a post at either end, especially of we want an accurate end or want to mend the rip when we are done. So we would have to go to the other end of such a rip, before we can make such a rip. See above.

Removing mass. There are those who suggest that mass is a property separate from the other qualities of matter. Removing the mass from a chunk of matter would cause it to fly off at the speed of light at the slowest.

This avoids the time dialation problem, because although time may still dialate, the total trip is still very short. It may seem like an instant to you, but it would still be only a few minutes to your family.

The problem with high energy travel is that as you increase in speed, your mass increases. Go faster and it takes more energy to increase your speed, because you are "heavier". Go fast enough, and no matter what amount of mass you start with, your mass has become so great that it would require more energy than the Universe contains to make you go any faster. At the speed of light, not at 99%, but right at it, it would require infinite energy.

Unless you start with zero mass. As you know, you can multiply zero as many times as you want without reaching a number. So increasing your speed beyond the speed of light involves applying any level of energy.

Lastly, a method which is almost certainly impossible, is to use the compressed dimensions of sub-nuclear physics. The reason the weak and strong forces do not operate beyond the nuclear level is that they apply to a greater-than-four dimensional universe. Their effect is distributed over a Physical Universe with perhaps 9-27 directional dimensions. Instead of an inverse-squared decrease over distance, they have an inverse-n decrease. So their effect beyond the shell of electrons is minimal, infinitesimal.

But, like all forces, their effect is universal. Inside those compressed dimensions, they reverberate across the whole universe like gravity waves do in our framework.

If we could rotate into those dimensions, then rotate back, we could move across the universe by moving less than the distance of an atom.

A lot closer than "down the road to the chemist's".

[rainman]

onthecuttingedge,

 "Some modern cosmologist are starting to lean towards an infinitely sized universe with no bounds.
If this becomes the accepted theory in Cosmology then that makes us a living species that is infinitely small and that means everything would be the center of the Universe including you and I or even a star a quadrillion parsecs away."

Infinite runs both ways. In the palm of your hand, and the cosmos.

[GamerThom]

If that holds to be the case, then a paradigm set forth in one
of Hawking's theories would also hold true, that is; if the
universe is infinite, both infinitely large and infinitely small.
Then there would also be the possibility of inifite dimensions
existing in an infinite number of space/time continuum's.

[freddy888]

This place gets more like Star Trek everyday []

[GamerThom]

I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you very much. [] []

Stephen Hawking put forth that theory back in 1975, it was
published in the science magazine OMNI in early 1976.

[Bill819]

quote:Originally posted by GamerThom

If that holds to be the case, then a paradigm set forth in one
of Hawking's theories would also hold true, that is; if the
universe is infinite, both infinitely large and infinitely small.
Then there would also be the possibility of inifite dimensions
existing in an infinite number of space/time continuum's.

Hawkings is/was right to a point. The first and true leader is still Einstein and his original theories are still be proven true. NASA just verified another one of his theories and that is gravity bends time and space and they were only using little old earth to prove the facts.  Consider then what the call a black hole can do to space.
I have always maintained that black holes are really worm holes and to a point Einstein said the same thing.
Bill

[Art]

quote:Originally posted by Bill819

I have always maintained that black holes are really worm holes and to a point Einstein said the same thing.

Gee...if only you would have said it first![]