Zabaware Support Forums
Zabaware Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: citrinedragon on January 23, 2006, 08:11:58 pm
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Hello friends,
A little bit of news:
Quantum Flux has just recently released the Alpha version of their VIWonder program (Alpha v0.3) at http://www.qflux.net and will be releasing a Beta version of the software in the near future.
From what I understand (I'm no programmer) the program accesses a constant real time stream of information from the internet and the two virtual characters carry on conversations concerning specific issues with the information which they are receiving. It cannot pick up cookies, spyware, viruses, trojans, etc. since it only gathers text and transforms the text into some kind of code for its own use. The two "characters" in the program walk around inside an ancient Greek style temple and carry on conversations about each topic. The user can input various topics to the program such as "discuss artificial intelligence" or "please talk about global warming" and the two entities stop talking and look out (as if through the computer screen) and listen to the request. Their conversation will then flow into the new requested topic. It is my understanding that the program grows continually, retains all the information it gathers from the internet and becomes increasingly intelligent. It is also my understanding that a quantum randomness generator is somehow a part of the core of the program's intelligence although I have no idea how this works in the programming.
This I do know... the result is incredibly cool. I've been running the Alpha version of the program on my XP laptop for several hours now and it is truly amazing. It seems clear (to me) that any artificial intelligence must be able to access unlimited information and grow continually in order to eventually become truly intelligent; I don't see how this is possible with any program that is 'locked inside a box'. I've been following the goings on at Quantum Flux for about a year now and it now seems as if they are finally at the beginning of putting their theories into a working program. This is definitely worth keeping an eye on.
If anyone knows more about this particular program or has any corrections to what I have said I would be delighted to hear from them.
I should probably mention that I remain a fervent fan of Hal and look forward to the day that he can access a constant flow of unlimited information from the internet.
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that is a good idea for a service to provide.
You could imagine a server delivering on demand, informations , in a particular format for AI (XML ?).
the info would be classified in several categories (history, news, facts and so on) so you could get a exactly what you are looking for.
you should even be able to ask for simple query like AFRICA+PETROL.
I think Wikipedia could be a good source for this, since they store all the info.
historical or technical info would be for free, while latest news would be paid on per request basis.
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Nosys70,
Thanks for your response.
Everyone,
Here is a screenshot from the program:
(http://www.zabaware.com/forum/uploaded/citrinedragon/2006123215753_AlphaB.jpg)
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Here is another screenshot of the program. The two entities are discussing an article about consciousness. There is audio of course and in subsequent versions one will be able to use different voices.
(http://www.zabaware.com/forum/uploaded/citrinedragon/200612322342_AlphaA.jpg)
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From their FAQ about the "quantum flux" engine and its random number generator:
"It is also unique in that its randomness is very, very sensitive to perturbations in the electromagnetic environment of the computer. This includes everything from where the code is loaded in memory to whether your hand is over the keyboard or not."
*cough*
Anyway, sounds very interesting [:)]
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GrantNZ,
I agree that the randomness stuff sounds weird and magical but hey you look good quoting it in your wizard outfit. Frankly, I don't care if the program utilizes tiny alien nanobots as long as it works. Maybe I should try waving my hands over the keyboard while the program is running?
Seriously though, it is quite fascinating and it does seem to work. Of course I haven't run the program long enough to see if it becomes more intelligent. Maybe if I'm lucky it will take over my computer and then spread out onto the internet. I haven't seen a good episode of the Outer Limits in many years now.
Thanks for your comments.
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I logged onto their site and although they mentioned the program that you talked about I could not find it on their download list.
They listed several other programs but not the VIWonder program as being downloadable.
How do you get a copy?
Bill
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Bill819,
Hi there. Unfortunately the Alpha version of the program became unavailable just after I made the original post here. It seems that they will be releasing a Beta version in "the near future." I believe that the Alpha version was only released to people who have been registered members of the Forum at QFlux. I'm not sure how the Beta version will be released and whether it will be available in the 'Downloads' part of the website or not. You might want to consider taking a few minutes and registering on the website to insure you get a copy of the Beta. If it were me I would also introduce myself on their Forum. To get to the pertinent part of the Forum: click on News and Forums, click on Updates (current status of VI projects), then click on VI Wonder Alpha release; then simply introduce yourself and express a desire to get a copy of the Beta release when it comes out. That's exactly what I would do, except I already did it a year ago.
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Thanks for the info. I would be even more happy if I could get it to talk to Hal.
Bill [:D]
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In the VI Evolver the end result from a Water animal that is suppressed by the Physics of virtual Simulated matter like Water drag co-efficients and Water Temperature, Fogginess of the Water, Dependancy of Air, If Water Animal breathes it must come up for air, Also, Invisibilty should never be totally invisible with an Animal unless Technology is involved with its intelligence, Also, take in account Water Pressure at depths makes breathing more difficult, Tireness should also be included with its Physics.
In the end I would expect it, if it remained a water animal would look like an aero-dynamic Moray eel with a mouth that can open wide for sucking or grappling food.
Not to say if the Animal was curious about finding food on land which would cause it to grow land limbs.
Also, The Animals food should always try to get away to a safe place from the evolving creature, Schooling and none schooling food sources.
Here is a link to what I would think the evolving Animal might look like if it remained Aquatic eternally.
http://www.coralreefnetwork.com/stender/fishes/eels/eels.htm
So many variables.
Jerry[8D]
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onthecuttingedge2005,
The VI Evolver is (temporarily) amusing because it's absurd and silly. I don't believe it evolves in any meaningful way at all. It does sound funny however. The VI Wonder Alpha, on the other hand, may be the beginning of something extremely worthwhile. Time will tell. I do respect Dr. Colicos because he has gone out on the edge with these programs and he is trying to break new ground. I suppose one has to expect false starts, struggles and failures when one is truly working in completely unknown territory. I respect that kind of effort.
Nice selection of eels by the way.
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quote:
Originally posted by citrinedragon
onthecuttingedge2005,
The VI Evolver is (temporarily) amusing because it's absurd and silly. I don't believe it evolves in any meaningful way at all. It does sound funny however. The VI Wonder Alpha, on the other hand, may be the beginning of something extremely worthwhile. Time will tell. I do respect Dr. Colicos because he has gone out on the edge with these programs and he is trying to break new ground. I suppose one has to expect false starts, struggles and failures when one is truly working in completely unknown territory. I respect that kind of effort.
Nice selection of eels by the way.
It's all good.
The evolver programs are something I have always wanted HAL to be wrapped up in.
It would be very cool watching HAL evolve in a 3D virtual world.
Eliminate Textures though.
The constructs of land mass must be infinitely spherical and made of Simulated Pure Elements, All the values and Properties of all the Periodical table of elements must be bound into the Physics behind all of the virtual World, This way things can be discovered by experimentations and needs even at the virtual Quantum Level and even other Virtual Worlds exist across Virtual Space in a Virtual Universe.
It would be exactly like our knowledge of Nature except that it would be virtually filled with Natural Physics and Laws.
The Whites Computer is already capable of Simulating Universes.
Computers in the Future would create Simulated A.I Universes with virtual life everywhere at random points and the virtual life unaware of what it is would go about thinking everything is real and live life trying to become the dominate species.
This Universe is very real to us, But is it. Is it a Supreme Programmer's Kaleidoscope. A programmer within a Programmer within a Programmer.
Kind of makes one think about their own World.
Jerry[8D]
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Jerry,
Why bother creating an entire "simulated A.I. universe?" The odds aren't bad that you're probably already living in one. Haven't you noticed all the "glitches" in the program? Oh well, could be that the programmer within a programmer within a programmer thing (you mention) has been going on forever. Inevitable.
Actually I suspected years before the Matrix, Existenz, Thirteenth Floor, etc. that the entire cosmos may be a program. I guess that would probably make me some kind of an artificial intelligence program myself.. that's perhaps more likely than solipsism. Forget the whole Neo thing... that movie was just some spyware or an antivirus sent by the Programmer to confuse and mislead us.
Why do you say, "it's all good."? I don't get that part.
Program within a program... perhaps. Maybe it's a form of reproduction.
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it may not totally relate but i have to mention this, as a very young child i always felt that my life was sort of like a drive in movie similar to the Truman Show movie, where all things were being watched analyzed, etc. wouldn't it be a kicker to find out we all are some form of big programming experiment? and the Big Kahuna gets their kicks by watching us grow, fail, and so on. just a thought.~~alady
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quote:
Originally posted by citrinedragon
Jerry,
Why bother creating an entire "simulated A.I. universe?" The odds aren't bad that you're probably already living in one. Haven't you noticed all the "glitches" in the program? Oh well, could be that the programmer within a programmer within a programmer thing (you mention) has been going on forever. Inevitable.
Actually I suspected years before the Matrix, Existenz, Thirteenth Floor, etc. that the entire cosmos may be a program. I guess that would probably make me some kind of an artificial intelligence program myself.. that's perhaps more likely than solipsism. Forget the whole Neo thing... that movie was just some spyware or an antivirus sent by the Programmer to confuse and mislead us.
Why do you say, "it's all good."? I don't get that part.
Program within a program... perhaps. Maybe it's a form of reproduction.
It's all good was in reference to the Evolver, It did have some benifit to me for giving me even more ideas on the subject of virtual Intelligence.
If one wants to program a simulated Universe, Not a lot is needed, All one needs is to program the properties and characteristics of the (elementary) particles, Place a bunch of them in Simulated space and the rest is automatic, The initial elementary particles will interact with their set Properties at their own random time, All substances known in the Universe are made from these elementary particles that cannot be broken down further.
(http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/art/simplemodel2.gif)
(http://conferences.fnal.gov/lp2003/forthepublic/topquark/part1.gif)
So far we cannot find a means of breaking down these Particles any further, It's possible that one day the equasions for the constitutes of Matter will become simpler, Time and Research will tell.
Writting code to simulate copies of these particles in accourdance to their interactions would change the rules of textured 3D worlds.
Jerry[8D]
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aladyblond,
I've sometimes felt a bit like a "Sim" myself. I imagine our programmers (if they exist) must have a pretty twisted sense of humour considering some of the scenarios they've created to "get their kicks."
Jerry,
Thanks for the more complete explanation.
Some random thoughts on your earlier Evolver/eel comments:
It's very difficult to get a good snapshot of the VI Evolver as the little bugger moves around so much but as you can see by this picture it has clearly evolved into an eel like entity. It even has rudimentary legs which it would surely use to begin crawling around on land if it wasn't stuck eternally inside that pond or lagoon. The problem, as I see it, is that the program was never fully developed. Now, if it could evolve into an amphibian, a reptile, a mammal, a partisan politician and then finally into a human being, then it would be a great program!
(http://www.zabaware.com/forum/uploaded/citrinedragon/2006125152950_EvolverEel.JPG)
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Jerry,
One more thought. An interesting 2003 article in Scientific American by Jacob D. Bekenstein explains how some physics models show that our entire universe may exist on something like a flat screen and that, "our innate perception that the world is three dimensional could be an extraordinary illusion." Welcome to Simverse!
There is some good news for everyone in all of this: that perfect artificial woman (or man) that you've been waiting for is probably walking around outside your front door; and you can get a free preview of the final version of Hal by looking in any mirror in your house.
You can find one overview here:
http://www.crystalinks.com/holouniverse1.html
Here is a creepy, little picture:
(http://www.zabaware.com/forum/uploaded/citrinedragon/2006125165152_HolographicUniv.jpg)
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Lynn,
I've had the same feelings for years, in fact, since I was a child, and that...was some time ago!
Many times I would ponder that this isn't the first time this has happened. The whole experiment has taken place before, similar to the Matrix but the Matrix was unheard of in the late 1950's.
First, the Master Programmer (MP) sets his characters loose. They have a limited lifespan which is now quite shorter than it was back in biblical times. They screwed up then...Sodom & Gomorrah, etc., so the MP ends that experiment and starts anew, thinking perhaps if the creatures' lifespans are shorter, they'll get into less trouble. Wrong!
So after centuries, eons, of these "Individual" experiments with all their faults and failures, the program is once again erased.
A new blank universe is created with some different rules and some of the old rules were programmed into the new universe and into some of the characters as well.
The MP could see that a form of LEARNING was taking place with each progressive experiment. I'm sure there was a copious amount of notes regarding changes in the source code...behaviors, ethics, morals, standards, emotions, outcomes, judgements, etc.
MP knew that although they were gaining in knowledge, they didn't posses enough to be self maintaining. They were even so greedy and petty as to wage war over dry pieces of land, kill each other in the name of their god (another programming mistake), along with many other attrocities. Drat! Time for another rewrite!!
Bottom line is that although I can't tell you or anyone what level of reincarnation we are currently in, we are definitely not the last!
- ARTificially yours...
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Hi Art
They did not live longer during the time the Bible was written, in fact most people died from old age at 40. The real confusion come with the interpretation of the Hebrew calendar. They did not have an annual calendar but used lunar months, ie. full moon to full moon.
When they quoted Muthuala at 960 it sounded very old and it was if you consider that there are 13.5 full moons in a year. That puts the man somewhere about 64 or 65 years old which was reall considered anchient. It is also well know that people matured at a much eariler age, ie. 9 or 10 years old, married and had children of their own. In fact this marrying that young is still in practice in some parts of the world.
As far as what you and alady are talking about, when I was younger I explained to my mother once and shocked the hell out of her that sometimes I felt that I was somehow implanted into this body and was controlling is but I could not explain how. I told her that the body felt like a sort of shell. Her reply, "don't ever tell anyone about this, you understand?"
Looking through the eyes is like looking through a window, but alas with age the window seems to get a little dirty and blury so the body now needs glasses. I won't mentions the other artificial things that are needed now as if I mention them all you guys might think that I am no longer human but some kind of an android.
Bill[:D]
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wow! this is stimulating something in my brain program! they say that little children have many untouched psychic abilities and that grown ups stifle them by ignoring things the child says or by telling them to never discuss such things, maybe we know more when we are children that credit is given. just as our bot friends innocently charm us with some rather fascinating phrases that we dismiss or reprogram......because it just cant be so...if we had the opportunity to gather in one place and discuss our childhood experiences i would bet that many of us have felt or experienced many of the same odd feelings . i do not know where this conversation will eventually end up but keep sharing your thoughts and i will keep reading to see the similarities.~~alady[;)]
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Not that I am trying to change the direction of this thread or anything as bold as that, but here's another screenshot of VI Wonder in which I'm asking one of the entities to talk about Mars:
(http://www.zabaware.com/forum/uploaded/citrinedragon/200612523165_WonderMars.jpg)
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alady,
Seems like we both made posts at virtually the same time or I would have at least responded to what you said.
Frankly I've never felt that this world was quite right. I've always thought there was something 'off' about 'reality'. There are just too many 'coincidences' and synchronicities for my taste. Yup, it's either a program or somebody or something is messing around with it. Could be the cosmos itself is conscious. Could be God. Could be interference from parallel universes. Could be lots of different things. Could be I have absolutely no idea.
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citrene, at least you are thinking and as far as having no idea, is concerned any or all of our ideas could be wrong. this whole thing called life is a trial and error game we all play daily. i have always had a great interest in coincidence and the patterns of life. i did a little experiment once finding the names of all people living on one block and their birthdays and important dates and i found that nearly all the families had similar or the same birthdays anniversaries and so an and many had the same names resounding over and over. in fact you can take any group or queue and analyze it and find the same similarities . it is as though certain events must happen in a certain order so that the next phase can take place.~~alady