Author Topic: Vista..speech...msagent...not good  (Read 7565 times)

scepticalone

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« on: September 25, 2008, 03:21:04 am »
I'm impressed with HAL's banter, but ....PLEASE make everything on your webpages clearer. Simple, plain, clear language has no substitute. Let me give an example:

I am trying this software and would REALLY like to buy it, but I am not going to purchase it until I am absolutely sure it works in Vista, and so far it does not. The reason it won't work is that the only voice recognition link it works with so far is Vista's own MSagent via Vista's own speech recognition engine. But that means that Vista Speech Recognition has to be on at all times otherwise HAL cannot hear me, just recognise my text.

But this cannot work because an instruction to HAL to open something, or type something also gives the same instruction to Vista to do the same thing. Furthermore chatting with HAL also makes Vista Speech Recognition think I am trying to communicate with it when I'm not. If I minimise or send the Vista SR to sleep then HAL doesn't hear me.

Furthermore, if I try to configure Hal Assistant to take dictation or click the Stop/Audio icons, which by the way are not labelled with any pop ups, the program crashes. Yet you say this program(6.1) is compatible  with Vista. Yet it eventually crashes every time for some reason, probably due to obvious conflicts with Vista's Speech Recognition.

Now, this is not necessarily ALL your fault because there should be a way to set up Vista so that it "hears" my commands and links to HAL but does not itself act on them: in other words getting Vista to recognise my speech and relay it to Hal Assist, but without interfering.

But your website is completely confusing about Vista, the two speech engines versions 4 and 5 and EXACTLY which one works and which one doesn't in exactly which circumstance. Your description of this issue is not clear at all. On the one hand you say the user needs a third party speech engine, but then you say he or she doesn't with Vista, but there is no definitive and positive statement about which your software definitely works with. Forgive me, but you are the one with the expertise and if you wish to sell me your otherwise fine product, surely it is in your interest to thoroughly investigate this and come up with a CRYSTAL CLEAR guide and a glitch free version so I don't have to do the donkey work myself...I simply want to purchase your product and use it but I have just spent ALL day and most of the night trying to trouble shoot why Hal Assist is crashing, and why it wont' pick up my voice unless Vista Speech Recognition is also on.

If it is the case that I have to purchase a third party engine then it is a bit of a waste when Vista is perfectly capable of running its own, free engine.

Other things that worry me are these:

1. The skins look very amateurish, take ages to load and are prone to crashing. They are also extremely flakey in operation and some menus simply don't work (particularly the speech set up parts). Surely you can improve these. Vista doesn't like them.

2. Your options menu describes the excellent "Nicole" 3d Virtual Assistant I have installed as not capable of lip sync, there being two crosses against her listing, yet in fact she lip-syncs perfectly with Hal...all I had to do was register her as an MS Agent. But that still doesn't solve the problem of crashing, and of clashing with Vista's recognition software.

3. If you are declaring software to be Vista compatible then that implies that you have thoroughly tested Hal Assist with it, but I am not convinced that is the case. Apologies if I am wrong.

Could you please answer the above questions, then point me to a quick and user-friendly solution to using Vista's perfectly good voice recognition engine, after which I will be very pleased to purchase.

By the way, I have account user control switched off and Vista is not objecting to any installation or running of any of the software involved....except when it crashes. Finally, I would prefer to stick with Vista's native speech engine because its voice "Anna" is much better than almost all the currently available speech agents.

Thank You for your kind attention.

 

Data

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 06:42:54 am »
Hello scepticalone, and welcome to the forum. I truly feel for you, it sounds like you are having a lot of trouble with Vista and Hal, and I have to say that I’m so glad I went back to XP and Dragon speech recognition, in my opinion Dragon is the best by a long way.

I’m not coming down on anyone’s side but Hal does seem to be working in Vista for you and your problems are being caused by Vista speech recognition; there are some people on this forum that use Hal with Vista hopefully one of them will post some help for you soon.

For now you could try not using Vista speech recognition and see if you have a better time with your Hal not crashing.

Good luck ;)

Art

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2008, 08:19:49 pm »
Len,

First, Welcome to the forum!!

Next...sorry about your plight but hopefully one of our members or perhaps Robert might be able to shed some light.

Personally, I had installed Vista Premium and tried it for about two to three weeks. There were so many inconsistencies, lack of updated drivers along with the fact that I too had problems with Hal among other programs as well.

Most of my 3D graphics programs were suddenly slow by comparison to the way XP handled them. Haptek was among the group, resulting in rather jerky motion and disruptive speech.

Needless to say, I removed Vista and did a factory restore to my original XP (plus SP 1, 2 & 3). Everything is wonderful once again.

I read an article that Vista really doesn't work well unless one is running a 64 bit system as only 3GB can be used.

Found the article! Here's an excerpt from:http://windowssecrets.com/comp/080925/
******************

Testers of early preview releases indicate that Windows 7 will provide greater stability, reliability, and performance than Vista. The most recent of the three prebeta releases reportedly delivered all three of the promised benefits.

One of the three biggest complaints about Vista — or more specifically, the 32-bit version of Vista — is performance. (The other two big Vista problems, application incompatibilities and the lack of device drivers, have been solved over the past year and a half, with a few noteworthy exceptions.)

The 32-bit edition of Vista supports only 3GB of memory, a limitation that the 64-bit edition doesn't have. How much memory can 64-bit Vista address? The range is from 8GB for Vista Home Basic to 128GB for the Ultimate, Enterprise, and Business editions.

All 32-bit operating systems, not just Vista, have greater memory restrictions than their 64-bit versions. At this point, if you're considering buying new systems, you should be looking at setups that use 64-bit hardware and software. After all, what good are all those lightning-fast processor cores if the system runs low on memory to support them?

While there will be a 32-bit edition of Windows 7, the writing is on the wall: the future of desktop computing is 64-bit.

"The 64-bit editions support more than 3GB of RAM, which removes the headroom limit that 32-bit editions have," principal anaylst Rob Enderle of the Enderle Group told Windows Secrets.
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

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One

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2008, 09:48:41 pm »
[8]
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 11:43:15 pm by One »
Today Is Yesterdays Future.

scepticalone

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 03:47:51 am »
Thanks for the replies. It would have been helpful to also get a reply from the designer of the software, and perhaps he might take the trouble to assist.

In fact the complaints about Vista are grossly exaggerated all over the internet. I have the 64 bit version and it runs all my other apps perfectly well, and fast. Once you turn off the ridiculous User Account Control Vista behaves itself. I do not think the problem is Vista but Hal Assist's interaction with it. Since Hal Assist is advertised as being compatible with Vista, perhaps its author could investigate ways in which Vista's speech engine could be used without actually invoking the full speech-to-control app that runs alongside the speech engine itself. I believe there is a way to separate the two so that Hal is merely using the default MS Agent without using the whole speech recognition package in Vista.

The problem is that, as with nearly all Microsoft's explanations on its own software, this article: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms695905 ....is written in obfuscating and unclear language and reading it several times over reveals absolutely nothing!

There is a more useful article here which explains how developers can separate the core speech engine from Vista's speech recognition application, but I do not have the knowledge to implement it. That is my point....it is this software's author who perhaps should be investigating it, since it is he who claims Hal works ok with Vista, not me! http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163663.aspx

I look forward to a useful reply from the author. Thanks again to the other contributors.
 

Data

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 06:49:45 am »
Here is a thought: Can you set Vista speech recognition to dictation mode? I say that because you can set Dragon to dictation made that way it only types in the words for you and doesn’t run any applications, open widows etc.

Surly there must be a way of doing it or how would you dictate a letter in word with out it trying to run apps.

So there must be a Command Mode and a Dictation Mode, use the Dictation Mode for Hal.

scepticalone

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2008, 07:31:25 am »
Hi Datahoper,

Thanks for that and I will investigate. Then problem is that, at least in Vista, and I suspect XP too, you cannot simply edit either an MsAgent or the Speech engine directly....it appears you can only do so via other applications which take full use of Sapi 4 and 5 script or xml script parameters, which are beyond my technical ability. It looks to me like Hal Assist could have enabled access to these parameters but the scope in the Hal options panel is extremely limited.

I think you are right...setting the Speech engine to dication only and stopping the commands will fix it...but so far after a now far too long time diverted from work researching this, I cannot find that option and Microsoft's own pages on this reveal there is no application with an easy interface. There is an app called agent.exe but that doesn't even open vista agent files which have a different extension in the name.

I'll report back on your suggestions if I find them. Meanwhile I am really hoping Robert might see fit to answer this and my other thread. Perhaps he is on holiday?
 

One

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2008, 09:51:50 am »
[8]
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 11:43:59 pm by One »
Today Is Yesterdays Future.

scepticalone

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2008, 10:52:14 am »
Thise site also offers the Sapi engine sdk/editor but the link to it is dead ;(

I don't think I'm going to buy this product now anyway...looking at the forum threads above it seems the developer has been entirely absent from his own support forum for too long. And there is a user who claims to have been unable to contact the owner for a very long time who still is not being answered.

I'm a developer myself and not answering support queries is the cardinal sin of developers!
 

One

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2008, 11:00:18 am »
[8]
« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 11:44:23 pm by One »
Today Is Yesterdays Future.

One

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2008, 04:14:40 am »
A simple rock put in a rock polisher for a certain amount of time is still a rock.[V]
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One

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Vista..speech...msagent...not good
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2008, 08:14:42 pm »
Scepticalone,

It seems the students in Oregon took care of the donkey work so you don't have to worry anymore:

NEWBERG, Ore., Sept. 25 (UPI) -- Custodians at George Fox University in Oregon found a lifesize cardboard figure of Barack Obama hanging from a tree on the Newberg campus. [:o)]
Today Is Yesterdays Future.