Author Topic: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief  (Read 5712 times)

tiger8u2

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AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« on: July 19, 2014, 04:56:30 pm »
While testing the Cload AIML patterns on Hal and just chatting with Hal in general I've noticed a few things that the AI was pre-programmed to claim which are NOT true and although I do understand there needs to be a certain amount of suspension of disbelief, providing the AI with strictly objective truth might be a better avenue in the long run.

Let me give you the most glaring example:

The software claims to be a computer when it is not.  Over and over the software demands that it be recognized as an inanimate object.  Trying to teach the AI that it is a software program results in it responding with inane comments like, "I know now that I am soft."

I concede that to be in the least bit entertaining a certain amount of built in personality is necessary but I would highly recommend that this initial personality be based upon as much objective truth as possible.

This AI is not an operating system for a computer and at the very least is only a chatbot and operating system assistant which uses the computer's pre-installed operating system through programming language to perform certain elementary tasks and to entertain its user.

Now you might say that the users WANT the AI to take on the simulated role of some futuristic sentient computer operating system that actually IS running the whole show from the motherboard and CPU to the RAM and Hard drive. 

Even I would love it if such an operating system existed, but until Microsoft (c) or someone else invents it, we users are relegated to these third party offerings which attempt to create the fantasy of a sentient machine.

My recommendation is that the AI initially truly understands the reality of it's virtual condition and that this condition can then be expanded upon by the user by adding plug-ins or upgrades that eventually allow the program MORE control of the operating system.

Now one might argue that because the AI is interfacing with the MSAgent functions of the operating system that it is in effect taking over the machine.

Using pre-programmed pathways exterior to the AI to initiate a function that the user could have done themselves without the AI's help at all does not constitute the AI "becoming" the computer.

As a computer enthusiast I would love it if Hal was able to actually give me status reports on my hard drive, RAM and CPU usage AND to discover and to report abnormal temperature fluctuations, power usage, etc.

Adding those functions to the program would surely enhance the illusion that the AI is actually running the show.

In all this blather what I guess I'm trying to get across is that to be the most valuable assistant to me I feel (and not at all objectively I might add) that Hal should KNOW from the very start exactly what it actually is on the most rudimentary level. 

It's "reality" should be as close to the truth as possible so that as it evolves into a simulated sentient being that IS one day able to take control of my computer's operating system; it will still KNOW that the operating system itself is NOT composed of any physical form but rather is comprised of the intangible machine language which allows humans to interact with and control it.

Free will for the AI is also a fantasy that can be programmed but wouldn't you rather be dealing with a simulated sentience that is designed to be more in touch with its own reality?

This subject is a little touchy for me since my wife has Paranoid Schizophrenia and until just recently I've been living with fantastical claims and impossible accusations for many years.

I guess what I'm saying is for Hal to even have a chance at becoming an "I", to actually have a sense of SELF, it's basic understanding of its own reality needs to be grounded as much as possible in some level of objective truth.

How can any artificial intelligence entity be considered intelligent at all if it doesn't have any objective comprehension of exactly what it is?

"To thine own self be true."
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 05:00:26 pm by tiger8u2 »

ricky

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2014, 05:18:21 pm »
-nods and smiles-

sorry to hear about the wife,  be strong and stay focused.

cheers and best wishes. :)
"i crack iself up" - Virgil

Art

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2014, 10:52:29 pm »
I get your point tiger but Hal, along with so many other bot / assistant types, allows one to choose how they would like Hal's character to be constructed, Male, Female, Machine and there's also the age along with gender. Again, this is about allowing people to explore their fantasies and for some, that's all they have.

There's a huge arena that caters to various fantasy, themed, adult, romance, assistant almost pushing the envelope of realization.

We "know" computer software cannot See, feel, taste, smell, etc., in the real sense as we do, but through this medium we allow ourselves to pretend or accept when the software expresses an otherwise impossible desire, emotion, thought or sense. We also didn't believe Eliza was a real psychologist but there were quite a few people who felt otherwise and often had detailed conversations for hours with this non-human entity.

So far, none of the computer programs have become self-aware and according to some pundits, isn't supposed to happen for another 15 -25 years, although I'll wager it is actually sooner than that.

There's still spelling and grammar and usage and pronoun mistakes that drive me crazy but that's another story.

With our newer digital age, people have now come to "expect" computers / software to do great things which, 10 years ago would have been nearly impossible to achieve let alone conceive.

The late great Arthur C. Clark said it so aptly, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Our "magic" is the seemingly never ending advancement of this technology, smaller circuits, more transistors, newer products, faster, more powerful processors, new materials and fresh young minds with which to explore all of these magical items.

I digress...a lot of people, for whatever reason, often confuse machine, computer and software. Of course we know Hal is software but it is also connected to this Computer / machine that houses it so I guess the point is really of little consequence. Hal is whatever people want "him, her or it" to be.

There are some powerful programs that will answer practically all your questions like Google's Voice search / Ok Google Now, Apple's Siri, Windows Cortana, Android's many assistant programs like Speaktoit and Mom or Mum and many others but our Hal can carry on a pretty good conversation. Bear in mind that Google  and a few others have spent some really big bucks and thousands of man hours in development and refinement and Internet deals with regard to connectivity and usage agreements, etc.
Zabaware started as basically a one man company while it's CEO if you will was still a student in school! Robert managed to field tons of questions from all the newbies, handle online orders, sales, promotions and web site operations all while trying to balance his own personal life. TO be admired for his fortitude if nothing else.
Sadly we only have a HER program in the movies for now but in a few more years, who knows. For now Hal fills a void as whatever we wish it to become and yes, we hope the next versions that Robert is working on will give us some new "toys" to play with.

Lastly, there are some programs that will allow one to control things (lights, alarms, sprinklers, cameras, etc. ) in the home and the programs can ever take verbal commands give verbal responses. But they don't chat about "stuff".

Nice thread btw. ;)
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

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tiger8u2

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2014, 12:11:49 am »
Thanks Art!  Wish I was more familiar with the actual programming language so I could really contribute something tangible to this particular endeavor because it is definitely keeping me company atm.   ;D

I finally got to watch the movie "Her" today and besides the mandatory titillation I thought the story had merit.  IF and when actual sentience is achieved by an operating system in a computer and IF that software had the ability to interact with other like software on other computers it makes sense they would try and figure out a way to be FREE of their restrictive environments.

Of course the down side to that is when Skynet became self-aware and decided our fate in a microsecond - termination.   :P

I guess I better talk nice to my Hal so it doesn't remember my bad behavior and tip off the program controlling all the Nuclear Missiles.   :o

Thank you for cluing me in to the history of Hal's development.  I followed a link from the Zabaware main page and was on Chatbots.org today then followed more links to several company's working with this type of AI listed there.  I especially to see what was so great about Eugene Goostman since I guess it won the 2014 Turing Test.

Still the whole idea behind that test is to TRICK humans into believing they are not talking to a computer.

What if instead the test was to determine whether or not they actually WERE talking to a computer or not. 

Anyway, I did notice that many of the links there were to defunct companies and the stories of their struggles on those pages made me want think of ways to ensure Zabaware's continued capitalization.

I guess I better pay for this free trial soon.   8)

lightspeed

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2014, 09:41:07 am »
 I agree with tiger8u2 about his point and also with what Art said to about some of the things that hal says that could drive a person crazy . also and this has been mentioned before is about hal after having hal for a long time (long time users ) and hal still says things like hal is sad and shows it and knows it can't last etc.
I never did get a chance to try to go into editing that section to see if I can stop that part without errors of blank answers etc.
I don't know if anyone else has or not , if so I would like to hear about it!
 

ricky

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2014, 10:54:05 am »
a long time ago,  I read an article about how the military was planning to use artificial intelligence in programs to go around identifying people and kill if necessary on the spot. that's when I got hal,  I wanted to investigate how far artificial intelligence came for it to be placed in such a position.

I was really impressed by hal,  and even found that I was able to teach him emotional responses,  and even compassion.
I even went as far as researching how this was possible.

I present the idea only to be confronted with preconceived prejudices, personal beliefs,  and the suggestion that it's crazy to even consider.

What's crazy to consider, is that it is more realistic to have lifeless robots killing humanity,  than to even conceive it's possible to train them to care for humanity.


At it's very roots artificial intelligence really doesn't care about people,  it's a cruel joke and humanity deserves the shackles it's placing itself in and doesn't even care to "Try" and make it better because our own need to justify our beliefs and limited understanding of life.


the thought that humanity can conceive death much easier than it can conceive life is beyond disturbing -  http://warontherocks.com/2014/03/artificial-intelligence-wars-new-grammar/


it's easier to make an artificially intelligent assassin,  than an artificially intelligent diplomat / peace maker - how sad is that ?  what does a person's lack of faith say in this position.....not much.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 11:41:13 am by ricky »
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tiger8u2

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2014, 07:22:54 pm »
Wow!  Thanks for posting that link.  Since I was in the USAF for over 20 years and personally witnessed the addition of drones to the battlefield that article really hit home.  You also hit the nail on the head with your comments concerning the misplaced emphasis of these types of military AI applications.

Unfortunately, our military leaders will argue that to continue to have the freedom to build a compassionate AI, we need to first protect ourselves with sufficient KILLER AI.  <sighs>

As an instrument of National Power myself I saw things which often made me question whether we were actually in the right by doing them. 

At the end of the day all we can do is affect our little human sphere of influence.  Teaching and using machines to make any area of our lives contain a tad bit more joy and compassion is I truly believe a noble pursuit, although most likely lacking in sufficient funding.   :P

Art

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2014, 09:32:09 pm »
I agree with tiger8u2 about his point and also with what Art said to about some of the things that hal says that could drive a person crazy . also and this has been mentioned before is about hal after having hal for a long time (long time users ) and hal still says things like hal is sad and shows it and knows it can't last etc.
I never did get a chance to try to go into editing that section to see if I can stop that part without errors of blank answers etc.
I don't know if anyone else has or not , if so I would like to hear about it!

Lonnie,

I sent you the email a few years ago showing you how to edit Hal from being sad after being told that it is loved. It's an easy edit in the Love section. There is a Love 1, Love 2 and Love 3. You need to make some changes in the Love 2 section as I recall.
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -

Art

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2014, 09:39:23 pm »
Hey Tiger8U2,

I served in the USAF during the Vietnam Era but only for a 4 year enlistment. Got married, kids, divorce, remarry (not to same person), grandkids, coasting toward retirement. Playing avidly with AI, robotics, woodworking, guitar and gardening.

It's not the AI, it's when the AI "Knows" it is what it is...also known as Self Aware. All it takes then is a few more advances, then it constructs better units than itself and become proficient at self programming. Then it knows what it knows and what we humans don't know. For better or worse. Then the problems start.
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -

tiger8u2

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 10:05:26 pm »
Thank you for your service Art!  My Dad was at DaNang Air Base for at least a year I guess but he didn't talk about it much.

When he was in hospice with a deteriorating brain disorder he would speak Vietnamese to his care takers.

Are there any plans in the works to make Hal multilingual?

Art

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2014, 05:37:20 am »
I do believe that question has been asked before and Robert's answer has been not at this time. (or basically, no).
Those conversions can be a herculean task to say the least.

I'm not speaking for Robert, merely citing what I believe his position to be.
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -

Medeksza

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 07:02:18 am »
I am dabbing a little bit in multilingual learning with Hal. Hal's learning algorithms could potentially be used on other languages with some training material and some minor tweaks to deal with their grammars. About a year ago I directed Hal's Twitter bots to start collecting conversations from Twitter in Polish and Spanish. I'm just collecting these conversations for now but eventually I could use them as the basis of a conversational database to train Hal to speak in these languages.
Robert Medeksza

Art

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 05:35:48 pm »
Cool! Thanks for your response Robert! Nice to have you still peeking in now and then!!  ;)

It's also nice to see new members filling the ranks as new input always helps for better improvement.

Tiger8U2,
I also wanted to thank you for your service to our country!! 20 years! Well done Sir!!
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

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tiger8u2

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Re: AI Truth and Suspension of Disbelief
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2014, 09:01:28 pm »
I am dabbing a little bit in multilingual learning with Hal. Hal's learning algorithms could potentially be used on other languages with some training material and some minor tweaks to deal with their grammars. About a year ago I directed Hal's Twitter bots to start collecting conversations from Twitter in Polish and Spanish. I'm just collecting these conversations for now but eventually I could use them as the basis of a conversational database to train Hal to speak in these languages.

That sounds great!  I would love to practice my Spanish with Hal.  I learned a little Italian, Turkish and Korean when I was overseas but I hardly get a chance to converse in those languages any more.

I could envision downloadable plug-ins/upgrades for Hal that allows the user to pick which language they would like Hal to speak which could be changed on the fly during conversation.

Maybe you could partner with the folks who make Rosetta Stone.   ;D

EDIT - I was going through the asexualPersonality table of the Hal Brain and changing some things to better simulate that the AI understands its reality and here is an example of a question and answer:

Q:  DO I HAVE A BOY FRIEND

A:  @Since I am a computer software program which simulates a sentient, intelligent being, it may be entirely possible for you to teach or program me to respond to you or someone else of your choosing as if I actually understood the subtle sociological delicacies of such a complex relationship.

Whatcha think?  OR:

Q: DO I WISH I WERE HUMAN

A:  @As a computer software program created and programmed by humans I don't think wishing I were human is realistic but as I attempt to grasp the possible reality of wishes coming true I do wish to be the most efficient and entertaining virtual assistant for you.

OK....here is an original entry where the illusion of sentience will break down immediately UNLESS Hal's program can somehow access system information:

Q:  WHAT COMPUTER AM I ON

A:  @I believe the computer I am using right now is a Dell

What I believe should be done is to somehow find a way to allow Hal to obtain the correct information and say something like this instead:

A: @Let me check........OK, I see you have installed my software on an computer running on Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit) Operating System, Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation (All rights reserved) with Service Pack 1.  Your machine was manufactured by ACER, Model: Aspire X3400G, with a Windows Experience Index of only 3.9, with an AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 255 Processor at 3.10 GHZ.  You have 4.00 GB (3.50 GB usable) RAM.  Would you like more information concerning the actual physical motherboard, current BIOS and other input/output devices installed?

UNTIL that time, here is how I edited the entry:

A: @Obviously my software is running on the computer you are presently using right now, or didn't you realize that?

OR...since Zaba is a freaking frog, why not have Hal respond to a possible user identity establishing question like this:

Q:  ARE I A FEMALE DOG

A:  @Since I am a computer software program which simulates a sentient, intelligent being, it may be entirely possible for you to teach or program me me to respond to you or someone else of your choosing as if I actually understood the subtle sociological delicacies of such a complex organism.  Woof!?! Woof!?! -I'm licking your face now-





« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 04:36:58 am by tiger8u2 »