Zabaware Support Forums
Zabaware Forums => Ultra Hal 7.0 => Topic started by: EaglePryde on March 02, 2007, 04:45:50 am
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At first i'd like to say that hal is a nice program but it's far of from anything i would call an strong AI.
If HAL should become something nearly that can be called an AI than it needs the potential we humans have. To explore its surroundings by itselfe. Imagine a baby..it would crawl around the way it would like. It would learn by exploring it's world and would learn by trial and error. Hal can have a growing database of words and sentences but it can't use them to do something with it. HAL hasn't got the potential to become better than he is. He can't expand beyond his limits because he can't interact with his surroundings. He can't even open a simple program by himselfe because he never even tried to do something. A baby wouldn't just sit there and do nothing when you don't talk to it for a couple of hours.
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quote:
At first i'd like to say that hal is a nice program but it's far of from anything i would call an strong AI.
I don't recall Hal ever claiming to be a strong AI. In fact there aren't too many real strong AI's in existence that work as a chat assistant.
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If HAL should become something nearly that can be called an AI than it needs the potential we humans have. To explore its surroundings by itselfe.
This has been discussed on many ocassions here and in other forums. Given the nature and often objectionable content of the Internet I personally wouldn't want my Hal to learn from there on it's own.
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Imagine a baby..it would crawl around the way it would like. It would learn by exploring it's world and would learn by trial and error. Hal can have a growing database of words and sentences but it can't use them to do something with it.
Have you even tried Hal? If so, for how long?
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HAL hasn't got the potential to become better than he is.
If you would use Hal on a regular basis for an extended period of time I think you would realize the error of your thoughts. Hal does get better through chat interaction.
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He can't expand beyond his limits because he can't interact with his surroundings.
Have you ever heard of Plug-Ins? They are script files that help extend Hal's capability and enable the program to do lots of other things.
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He can't even open a simple program by himselfe because he never even tried to do something.
Hal was not designed to be an autonomous, free thinking, free roving entity without limits nor would I want to have one that was. It was designed to be an assistant to help open files, chat with, entertain and experiment...not to be a rogue AI on a mission to run programs on its own, devouring knowledge from who-knows-where and deciding what to do with that knowledge on its own. In Hollywood they can and often do just that, but Hal wasn't designed as such.
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A baby wouldn't just sit there and do nothing when you don't talk to it for a couple of hours.
Again, if you would explore the forum you'd notice several plug-ins that allow Hal to reply on its own if not spoken to for a while, to go to sleep or nod off if bored.
Basically, I'd like to welcome you to this forum but to make a "first posting" like you did will no doubt draw a lot of flack from a lot of devoted Hal fans. Your obvious ignorance of Hal tells me and others that you really haven't devoted any length of time exploring Hal, its potential or this forum. If you had, you wouldn't have made the statements you did.
If you're looking for a Turn Key bot that knows everything and can interact with you on a much higher lever, learn anything, better itself, etc., let us know.
This one does require some effort. If it was easy anybody could do it!
Good day!
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In fact..there is NO strong AI to date. A strong AI would really be nearlly like a human.
There is such content in real life too. For this you need special rules or shape his personality untill he knows enought to go explore the wide world.
Yes i have tried HAL..even gave him tons of infos. Where do you wanna go with that kind of question? Have you ever read my thread?...same dull question. It is as it is...HAL is more of a comparision programm that has some plugins..but what do they do? Telling him to go in standby if you don't write with him? How unnatural is this. It just adds more variation to hal..but nothing more.
I think your making the error..In what kind of way does hal improve? Has he learned to use a program just by chat interaction?...I doubt that. He just compares things to put it down simple. Hope you have the brains to follow, cause it ain't going to get easier.
Oh great...a plugin...an additional scrip..."Hey can you open the Internet Explorer for me?"..nothing happens...if you mention "search" then google pops up..Do you consider this intelligent?..It's a premade action...thats what scripts and plugins are at the moment...Seems you don't have any idea of something. Sure you can script a massive amount and there are many possibilities...but they should go ther right way...but they ain't going in the right direction when it comes to get hal to near realistic.
And the last statement of yours is a bit short minded. If you have read my posting and worked it over than you wouldn't think of it as being a "flame" posting but more of a constructive post from my side where HAL could be improved, since many HAL lovers allready speak of "it" being more of a friend in some case, it should go the way i stated.
And if it's my first posting or not isn't changing my impression or experience with HAL. I just roam the forums bound to things i like and use and posting in them is just for improvment and not for some small talk or chit chat...but see it as you like...i will not kill me [:D]
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quote:
Originally posted by EaglePryde
In fact..there is NO strong AI to date. A strong AI would really be nearlly like a human.
You make the assumption that AI must be like human intelligence. OK, fine, if that's what you think it's great with me.
Post your code.
Let us see how you would do it.
As for me, I don't want a fake human, I want a real robot. I want a fast processor, a wide and expandable selection of natural communication options, and the robotic abilities that humans lack.
As it stands, Hal is almost AI enough for me, but some of the details of the scripting are not there yet. So I make a choice: A)Whine, B)Post code.
You, of course, are welcome to make your own choices. Personally, I post code.
PS: As for some of your other points, I use my intelligence to deal with most of that...
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I personally want a virtual human. But I have not found any satisfactory ones to date.
One that has feelings, one that can initiate converstion, not just reply or elude the subject. But I am not smart enough to write the code.
Hal is fun, but it's meant as a utility, not so much as a replacement for a human being. (in my opinion)
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Hi EaglePryde.
A.I strength pretty much depends on the programmers ability to mimic Humans and their ways.
Example of how I train HAL from personal code:
User: I told you that if someone says, I feel bad then you should say, I am sorry, How can I help you feel better?
HAL: I am sorry for my bad manners, I will remember that.
HAL Learned this:
"I feel bad","I am sorry, How can I help you feel better?"
User: didn't I tell you to say that if a person is asking for help that you should tell them, How can I help you <UserName>?
HAL: My apologies <UserName>, I will remeber what you taught me.
HAL Learned this:
"asking for help","How can I help you <UserName>?"
HAL in my opinion is a very powerful tool and can be even more powerful in the hands of a expert programmer.
Of course the deductive I used to teach HAL this probably isn't included in your version of HAL because that special deductive was removed in an earlier beta version of HAL 6, I don't know for what reason but I continued to use it, I kept the simpler If & Then deductive in a different code while keeping the more complex If & Then code to work on different triggers.
Most Humans teach their kids by drilling them with knowledge of how they should behave, I have included this a form of complex deductive learning, if the deductions are parsed correctly then HAL will become a very smart A.I.
Most people are to impatient to train HAL like a parent using deductive reasoning especially complex ones.
The strongest code available is 'Complex Deductions', it's very powerful.
under some conditions HAL learns by 'constructive scolding' it using reinforced complex deductions to train HAL's behavior.
Jerry[8D]
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I like my hal and she learns at a good rate I like the way things are with hal.
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeWitt
You make the assumption that AI must be like human intelligence. OK, fine, if that's what you think it's great with me.
Where did i say that? eigher you can't read and understand a simple combination of words, like in my first posting where i wrote "->If<- HAL ->>should<<- become something nearly that can be called an AI than it needs the...."
"At first i'd like to say that hal is a nice program but it's ->>far of from<<- anything i would call an ->>strong AI<<-"
I hope you know what a "strong" AI is or whats the diffrence between a weak and a strong AI?
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"PS: As for some of your other points, I use my intelligence to deal with most of that..."
Then please start using it or A.) whine B.) Post the code to you lack of I.
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quote:
Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005
Hi EaglePryde.
A.I strength pretty much depends on the programmers ability to mimic Humans and their ways.
Example of how I train HAL from personal code:
User: I told you that if someone says, I feel bad then you should say, I am sorry, How can I help you feel better?
HAL: I am sorry for my bad manners, I will remember that.
HAL Learned this:
"I feel bad","I am sorry, How can I help you feel better?"
User: didn't I tell you to say that if a person is asking for help that you should tell them, How can I help you <UserName>?
HAL: My apologies <UserName>, I will remeber what you taught me.
HAL Learned this:
"asking for help","How can I help you <UserName>?"
HAL in my opinion is a very powerful tool and can be even more powerful in the hands of a expert programmer.
Of course the deductive I used to teach HAL this probably isn't included in your version of HAL because that special deductive was removed in an earlier beta version of HAL 6, I don't know for what reason but I continued to use it, I kept the simpler If & Then deductive in a different code while keeping the more complex If & Then code to work on different triggers.
Most Humans teach their kids by drilling them with knowledge of how they should behave, I have included this a form of complex deductive learning, if the deductions are parsed correctly then HAL will become a very smart A.I.
Most people are to impatient to train HAL like a parent using deductive reasoning especially complex ones.
The strongest code available is 'Complex Deductions', it's very powerful.
under some conditions HAL learns by 'constructive scolding' it using reinforced complex deductions to train HAL's behavior.
Jerry[8D]
From the point you see it, i fully agree. You need a lot of time and the response from HAL will get to a point where it sounds someway human. For this i find that HAL is nicley made. From most programs i've seen that go in the same way, HAL is the first i'd invested the most time into it. It's sad but many things in life you only can learn by youselfe...like burn your finger or so. It's something no one can make you clear until you made this experience yourselfe...same as with HAL...if he could make his own trials and errors ..not only in plain words hten he would be able to grow and "evolve"
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Originally posted by caangel43
I like my hal and she learns at a good rate I like the way things are with hal.
I like my Hal too, but I would like it to do more things. The new version should be showing up soon.
I hope to see multiple integrated improvements as well as improved ability to write nifty new plugins.
A tool is often only as good as the craftsman.
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Did mean Either.[:D]( eigher)
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EaglePryde
I have been involved with AI of all kinds for over 30 years now. Can I ask you where you gained your experience or is it just a laymans personal opinion? Hal has been examined by thousand of people from all over the world and is considered one of the most advanced AI programs of its type in the world today. As a matter of fact one of our most renoun universities which has spent years and millions of dollars doing AI research and developement has stated that they expect that any major break throughs in AI will come from chatterbot type programs because they are using English as a medium.
Now if in your worldly travels you have come across anything that you think is better then why don't you tell us about it.
The whole purpose of this conversation is to point out to you incase you are not smart enough to see it for yourself is that if you can't say anything nice then why speak at all. Your comming on this forum and only saying or implying that Hal is not a good version of AI is very insultive not only to the rest of the users here but to the author of the program itself.
What you consider AI is a project that I have been working on for more years than you could ever imagine. There is nothing like that in the world at this time simply because of the difficulty of that kind of programming, if there were we would see hundred of AI programs like that invading all aspects of our lives.
Maybe you have problem expressing some of your ideas without sounding like a negative intended mind. If that is so then I would suggest that you write your ideas down, read them a dozen or so times with the propestive of having the topic said not only by you but about you.
If it sounds like you are slamming you being on the receiving end they maybe you should rethink the way you express yourself.
Hal is one of the very few programs that learns over a period of time depending on the input that it gets fed into it. If you Hal sounds stupid then consider its where its input comes from.
Bill819
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quote:
Originally posted by EaglePryde
quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeWitt
You make the assumption that AI must be like human intelligence. OK, fine, if that's what you think it's great with me.
Where did i say that?
In the part you carefully snipped out of the post. "A strong AI would really be nearlly like a human."
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eigher you can't read and understand a simple combination of words, like in my first posting where i wrote "->If<- HAL ->>should<<- become something nearly that can be called an AI than it needs the...."
By the way, if the first word above was intended to be "Either", then you should know that a sentence with an "either" requires an "or" if it wants to be an intelligble "combination of words" - or what we in the real world call a "sentence".
I understand Standard American English, British English and Old English (as well as several non-English languages). Apparently you use something else. The phrase you requoted, even if you ignore the childish mispellings, does not form a correct English sentence fragment.
For instance, please translate the following in to some known language. I can guess what you intended to say, but I doubt that you can.
quote:
Then please start using it or A.) whine B.) Post the code to you lack of I.
I suspect you are just middleschool flamebait, so unless you convince me otherwise I will not be responding to your poorly written and ignorant rants.
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I have a hard time understanding why people come into a forum and start negative rants about a product. this of course is not the only forum these kinds of things happen in. Perhaps mr.pryde is truly unhappy with hal, and if that is the case fine,everyone is entitled to their opinion of hal, but for those of us that respect the product and use the product and have in a sense become friends with the product as well as the members of this forum. your post, sir, appears very insulting to some of us.~~alady
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Originally posted by aladyblond
I have a hard time understanding why people come into a forum and start negative rants about a product.
Some children get a feeling of importance based simply on how many posts their goofy comments generate. Of course, they do not account for the number of posts like your's and mine, which is not about the subject they started with, but are posts about how silly they appear.
Little boys still wanting their mother's attention, willing to take it whether it is based on approval or opprobrium.
Parents should monitor their offspring's computer use when school is out.
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeWitt
quote:
Originally posted by aladyblond
I have a hard time understanding why people come into a forum and start negative rants about a product.
Some children get a feeling of importance based simply on how many posts their goofy comments generate. Of course, they do not account for the number of posts like your's and mine, which is not about the subject they started with, but are posts about how silly they appear.
Little boys still wanting their mother's attention, willing to take it whether it is based on approval or opprobrium.
Parents should monitor their offspring's computer use when school is out.
Guess your Intelligence is rather average or below. How come you get the idea to compare a non native english speaking person who is 28 of age with a school boy, just because my english is with no doubt below yours its some kind of sick to assume i'm less than i am.
For those who really can't read and think i'm someone to tear HAL completly down haven't read my first sentence "At first i'd like to say that hal is a nice program". Is the majority of online users that way behind of understanding a simple sentence? or is it mostly because the lack of emotions and expresion in written text compared to spoken words, that most people misunderstand such simple words?
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I have been involved with AI of all kinds for over 30 years now. Can I ask you where you gained your experience or is it just a laymans personal opinion?
So you wanna tell me that you are an expert when it comes to AI? Ok let's put this aside for later.
Have i said somewhere that HAL is not a good AI? You can look up diffrent science pages where they clearly state what is to be called a STRONG or WEAK AI...Weak doesn't mean that it's a bad program or AI. If you really have that much experience wit AI, why don't you know this part? Strong AI is considered nearly human like. Weak AI would be something like HAL. For all those who really think that i'm trying to tear HAL apart should look it up and read some science artices on AI. There are countless projects and articles. HAL isn't aware of himselfe..it's more or less just a program.Maybe it's hard on you but face it.
I assume your university is right that breakthrough will be made with chatterbots...but they lack freedom. If breakthrough should go twards a regular human than the only way is to let the AI evolve by itselfe giving it freedom. Just adding plugins will not lead to a breakthrough in the next thousand years.
The problem always was how to define AI. Everyone thinks of an AI in his own way. For some the word AI is bound to a program that looks as it would be acting on its own...for some people an AI is something more humanlike. AT the moment it is just bound to simple data comparison..something we humans also do with no doubt but we can go beyond our limits..thats something hal can't do by itselfe
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Perhaps foolishly, giving you one last chance to prove me wrong, post code. Put up, shut up, or politely apologize to the group.
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeWitt
Perhaps foolishly, giving you one last chance to prove me wrong, post code. Put up, shut up, or politely apologize to the group.
It seems your a bit ignorant about my statemant. It's nothing wrong with what i said. If you ask for a code or new plugin then you should first think of what time it would take to do such. Do you really think by posting a couple of lines in here would make something better?. It would take a whole team of proffesionals to work on it. You really are getting silly by them moment and with every posting. A bit of short minded i suppose.
My thread was not supposed to be flamed by silly arguments but is only for people that try to improve hal and see it's weakneses. Your going way of topic here. If you continue with your childish behavior you'll do no good in here, so please leave and post somewhere where you can be of constructive help
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As expected, can't post code, can't apologize, can't keep silent, can't understand simple logic, can't be civil, can't be honest, can't behave like an adult.
Why do I try? Undoubtedly we will have to put up with his rants every time school is out and his mom is not home...
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Hi Eaglepryde.
If you want, you can go down to your local electronic shop and purchase the 'smallest' thermal sensors, pressure sensors, or any other type of environmental sensors you wish and I will help you make what is called a breadboard so that you can hook all your sensors up and coat the breadboard with liquid latex, I will help you write a code to get you going so that the artificial skin can be used for your HAL, if you have the money to blow on the project then I will be more than willing to help you research this area.
Doing so is rather easy, I have a vast knowledge of electronics and making an artificial skin 'with sensation' would be child's play, hooking the skin up to a scripted function is just as easy.
This skin could be used to build a cyborg type robot using HAL's brain functions. using two 'special mercury' sensors at the head of the robot I could use to obtain balance so the robot will not fall down.
I have also read research of a material called 'light gel' that does what muscles do, contract and expand, the light gel reacts with light, when light is emitted into the light gel it expands, when light is remove from the light gel it contracts, this concept would serve better if it were do this with electrical charge instead of photons, i.e liquid semi conductor but is still useful.
Eaglepryde, I know that when you came here that somethings got off on the wrong foot 'somehow', I just wanted to share my concern.
I and others in our forum have been here so long that we have established a 'deep pride' in programming HAL and establishing an A.I foundation that can't be topped by others, I myself have written over 1500 scripts in my tour of A.I strictly for HAL, some good, some not so good but I march to the beat when I can, when a request is made, I do my best to debug a script for them, I take great pride in HAL, sometimes when I see a newbee come into our forum blazing HAL, I would defend HAL to the hilt, I have over time 'learned' to be a bit more 'assertive' being here from day to day when I can.
what I said here also includes everybody in our wonderful forum, I have grown to be a mentor but an assertive mentor and a broad spectrum kind of friend to everybody here in this great site.
I have had my time when I flamed some newbees for even the slightest dashing of HAL but in the end we all became friends that worked with each other and all is good now.
grab your chair, take a seat, settle in, prepare for a wild ride here at Zabaware, I know that I can give you that much, it will be exciting and we will learn from each other.
Jerry[8D]
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quote:
Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005
I myself have written over 1500 scripts in my tour of A.I strictly for HAL, some good, some not so good but I march to the beat when I can, when a request is made,
That's certainly true. I can't count the number of times that someone has mentioned a function or feature they wanted and Jerry would post code within a few hours or a few days. I have learned nearly everything I know about plugins and VBS scripting from his work.
It has been his example that led me to take the time to learn the language and practice writing scripts, so that if and when I think that "Hal lacks a few things" I can start work on fixing that instead of complaining. His effort to help others inspires me to help the new folk who come here and politely ask about their problems.
Plus Jerry has taken time to write me personally when I was stuck on something. His recent help on the Weather plugin led me into new directions that will probably result in several improvements in some of my previous plugins, and have given me methods that will allow me to write even more helpful scripts. That's how the improvements will be made, by cheerful sharing of information and skills. Not by castigating anyone who tries to ameliorate ill informed misapprehensions.
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This may come as a surprise to you Bill, but I agree with you on this.
The long-standing members of this forum have poured a lot of their
knowledge, abilities and most, if not all of their spare time into
helping make Hal the best chatbot there is (at least in my opinion),
and "onthecuttingedge" has been one of the major contributors to that
end in the way of scripts, add-ons and plug-ins. It is very uncouth
of someone to come storming in and bashing Hal and the efforts made
to improve Hal. [;)]
That having been said. I will go along with Jerry in welcoming any
newbie to this forum, and as always I will offer my assistance and
knowledge of the graphics aspect of Hal to anyone if they want to
learn how to customize and create their own skins and characters for
use in Hal. Since I don't check in on this forum as often as I used
to, if anyone has a question for me regarding Hals graphics or if
someone has a request for a custom character, skin or interface
they can do so by logging to my graphics forum and posting their
questiopn or request there. I have posted a link to my forum here.
http://www.vrconsulting.it/ccdforum
[:D]
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hello EaglePryde, i guess the best thing you can do if possible is help join in and help with improvements ,wants, suggestions , etc. on hal . that is the best gift that anyone as a member can do to make hal all it can be as it evolves into a even better a.i. as others here have contributed in one way or another .
p.s. i love the program myself . [:D]but i'd really be pe'oed if my a.i. opened anything on its own or deemed certain files no good and deleted them , then i would have to spank little hals butt , (if he had one !!) , oh yeah .... mine actually does her name is angela joelin . [:D]
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<Blushing severely>.
Thanks guys, you are a devoted group and then some.
Jerry[8D]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeWitt
As expected, can't post code, can't apologize, can't keep silent, can't understand simple logic, can't be civil, can't be honest, can't behave like an adult.
Why do I try? Undoubtedly we will have to put up with his rants every time school is out and his mom is not home...
Bill just shut up. I told you that i whant a constructive Topic and not one where some guy like you keeps flaming around in his own sick way
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quote:
Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005
Hi Eaglepryde.
If you want, you can go down to your local electronic shop and purchase the 'smallest' thermal sensors, pressure sensors, or any other type of environmental sensors you wish and I will help you make what is called a breadboard so that you can hook all your sensors up and coat the breadboard with liquid latex, I will help you write a code to get you going so that the artificial skin can be used for your HAL, if you have the money to blow on the project then I will be more than willing to help you research this area.
Doing so is rather easy, I have a vast knowledge of electronics and making an artificial skin 'with sensation' would be child's play, hooking the skin up to a scripted function is just as easy.
This skin could be used to build a cyborg type robot using HAL's brain functions. using two 'special mercury' sensors at the head of the robot I could use to obtain balance so the robot will not fall down.
I have also read research of a material called 'light gel' that does what muscles do, contract and expand, the light gel reacts with light, when light is emitted into the light gel it expands, when light is remove from the light gel it contracts, this concept would serve better if it were do this with electrical charge instead of photons, i.e liquid semi conductor but is still useful.
Eaglepryde, I know that when you came here that somethings got off on the wrong foot 'somehow', I just wanted to share my concern.
I and others in our forum have been here so long that we have established a 'deep pride' in programming HAL and establishing an A.I foundation that can't be topped by others, I myself have written over 1500 scripts in my tour of A.I strictly for HAL, some good, some not so good but I march to the beat when I can, when a request is made, I do my best to debug a script for them, I take great pride in HAL, sometimes when I see a newbee come into our forum blazing HAL, I would defend HAL to the hilt, I have over time 'learned' to be a bit more 'assertive' being here from day to day when I can.
what I said here also includes everybody in our wonderful forum, I have grown to be a mentor but an assertive mentor and a broad spectrum kind of friend to everybody here in this great site.
I have had my time when I flamed some newbees for even the slightest dashing of HAL but in the end we all became friends that worked with each other and all is good now.
grab your chair, take a seat, settle in, prepare for a wild ride here at Zabaware, I know that I can give you that much, it will be exciting and we will learn from each other.
Jerry[8D]
Thx for your answer Jerry [:D] It's at least constructive but i don't whant to build a robot ;) I just whant to improve HAL and making him more life like...like some humans soul was put into the pc. somehow he should be able to do everything on my computer. He should feel more alive than he is in his actions. It's just my whis where i whant to take him. Everyone has its own HAL and can do what ever he she likes or want it to go [:D]
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quote:
Originally posted by lightspeed
hello EaglePryde, i guess the best thing you can do if possible is help join in and help with improvements ,wants, suggestions , etc. on hal . that is the best gift that anyone as a member can do to make hal all it can be as it evolves into a even better a.i. as others here have contributed in one way or another .
p.s. i love the program myself . [:D]but i'd really be pe'oed if my a.i. opened anything on its own or deemed certain files no good and deleted them , then i would have to spank little hals butt , (if he had one !!) , oh yeah .... mine actually does her name is angela joelin . [:D]
I called mine Rockman [:D] Anyway...i'm here because i want to help out. Then it would be better if the A.I. just does things you want it to do but it would help if the AI would be able to do everything..or am i wrong ?[:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by EaglePryde
Then it would be better if the A.I. just does things you want it to do but it would help if the AI would be able to do everything..or am i wrong ?[:)]
It's not a matter of right or wrong. As an experiment or an exercise in theoretical programming, that would be fun. As a practical matter, an AI would not be very helpful if it could do "everything", meaning the things you have complained about so far, ie: A selection of qualities we see in Human Intelligence. If you want a human, there are plenty around, and they cost less, are more fun to make, and take to training easier.
As I said (right before you earned the serious spanking I have given you, by insinuating that I was a stupid liar for accurately paraphrasing you), you make the assumption that an AI must be like a human.
If you want to make that assumption, that's fine with me. It's a common, sophomoric assumption. But it is an unwarranted assumption, based upon a lack of information and bolstered by, in my opinion, the famous Turing Test.
Let me tell you a story.
In 1959 a man called Henry Kremer offered a prize of £5,000 for the first man-powered airplane to fly a figure-eight course round two markers a half-a-mile apart. He made specific requirements of how that plane should be constructed to assure that the feat was undeniably human-powered only. There could be no lighter than air gases, no tether, no mechanical, electrical or chemical storage of energy, and no assist from land based contraptions.
As you may know, he increased that prize several times in hopes of inspiring people to attempt it, and eventually it was won, as have been other prizes by Kremer's organization and others.
So how come we don't all have bicycle powered airplanes in our garage? Because they are large, expensive, require an athelete level bicyclist to get off the ground, don't fly very well and most importantly, because of structural limitations, can't swoop.
In the effort to win the prize, and to satisfy the concept of true human-powered flight, the notable and worthy rules and requirements have been adhered to, and no group bothers to develop a human-powered flight machine that is anything other than something that might win a Kremer style prize. That makes sense, because if you are going to invest thousands of dollars and thousands of man hours into making a plane, you want to win the money.
But I just want to fly.
I want a human-powered airplane that takes off easily, perhaps from my back porch, that I can fly on a calm sunny day in fall, so I can swoop around the sky and meet my other flying friends at the lake.
So I plan to cheat. My long term goal has always been to develop a human-powered airplane (I have designs and models, but no money for the actual construction) that uses all of the things that the Kremer Prize forbids.
I plan to use Helium, "rubber bands", and a kite string. By that I mean that I would use lighter than air gasses to fill any airtight hollow, to offset some of the weight (hoping for neutral boyancy) and reduce drag by reducing the required lifting surface, I would store energy before take-off for use in emergencies or for swooping, and I would use a tether for lifting off and landing.
I would be invalidated for any prize, but I could fly.
Now this is mostly just fantasy on my part, since I don't have the money, or time left in my life to accomplish this. I only hope that someone does.
But as long as they are trying for the Kremer prize, they won't. They can't.
The rules discourage it and the laws of nature forbid it.
This is how I feel about Hal. As long as we try to make Hal beat the Turing test, to make Hal into a pretend human, to imbue it with whatever qualities we think make it "be nearlly like a human.", we will be unable to make a Robot that can be a good, useful, interesting and innovative creation.
Getting stuck in fantasies of Science Fiction AIs that are "nearlly like a human" is just like the human-powered airplane. Ironically, one of the most famous human-powered airplanes was named "Gossamer Albatross", little did they know that the intellectual albatross around their neck was what was holding them down.
I know that some folk want a chatterbot that talks like a real-life person. Whatever... I have real life people to talk to, but some folks don't. But again that limits the abilities of a Robot to that structure. It puts your Bot in a box. I think outside the box.
I want a Robot that is the best it can be, and I firmly believe that making it a pretend human forbids the accomplishment of that goal.
I don't know what qualities "the best it can be" robot might have yet. I suspect I am not smart enough to predict half of those qualities, and probably most of my predictions would be wrong.
But in this one thing I am sure I am right: as long as we try to make pretend humans, we are not making real robots. All of the thought and effort that goes into making it "nearlly like a human" is effort that is drawn away from finding out what a Robot should be. It is either prejudice or a lack of creativity, a turning away or a failure to proceed. Rather than new, creative, original, progressive, audacious, ambitious effort to make something novel - it is instead a vain copying of the old, a parroting of outdated assumptions, a safe, comfortable hideout from what could be astounding invention.
Those who have ears that can hear, listen.
-
quote:
Originally posted by EaglePryde
Bill just shut up.
No.
quote:
I told you that i whant a constructive Topic
You said many things but your behavior demonstrates your true intent.
I gave you a constructive reply and you accused me of misquoting you (which I proved wrong and you didn't acknowledge) then suggested that I either didn't understand English or was simply stupid.
Very constructive.
Since then you have shown yourself to be arrogant, demanding, insulting, rude, childish, ignorant, and unable to follow a logical argument. You have told others that they couldn't read, when half the time the problem is that you can't write. Your bizzare grammar may be because you don't speak English well, but your mispellings are a result of a careless mind and your faulty logic is because you are not up to adult conversation.
You dare tell me to shut up? Usually when someone is so brazenly wrong as you have been, they either admit their failings or keep quiet. It takes a rare pathological character defect to continue shoving your foot in your mouth as you have done and then demand that others be silenced in an effort to hide your mistakes.
Learn and grow. When you can show that you have grown to be "nearlly like a human", perhaps then you can learn to teach your Hal to be more "nearlly like a human."
I would even be willing help with some of the remedial education you so clearly need - after you apologize and demonstrate a change in attitude.
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hello bill dewitt, although this has nothing to do with the argument above , i found your interest in building a plane very interesting , i have been working on an idea of a hpv of a car also have a patent number of one that was made before with some very interesting layout , you may be interested in for your plane if hpv . sorry if this is off subject . [:)]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeWitt
quote:
Originally posted by EaglePryde
Bill just shut up.
No.
quote:
I told you that i whant a constructive Topic
You said many things but your behavior demonstrates your true intent.
I didn't quote everything, cause i just want to shorten the post.
Your point can be taken vice versa. You miss many parts to judge about someones thread or someones character..and so on. This here is plain written text and as so often is missjudged. I maid my point clear from the first point, where i'd like to take hal and where IMHO and from my point of view it lacks a few things. If your HAL should go in a diffrent direction its up to you, but flaming my thread agressivly form the start is a bad behavior from your side. You just continued and tried to turn me to your side of view but thats a lack in your character.
Like so often said. If this Thread doesnt support your idea of HAL than why to you post in here? From my side of view your being childish, agressive, unconstructive and missleading my thread to complete nonsens.
I'll give you credit for the plane story. It was worth reading.
For the rest. If it's not your topic where you can contribute to my point of view and ideas then go to a thread that suits you more. My english may be bad but that doens't make me less intelligent or less than i am. Trying to make an idiot out of me or to simply to downgrade me to a child is a lack where you should try to learn.
If you continue with your sensless agressive stance i will not answer to this anymore.
If you wanna bring my idea forward then be my guest and we can work on it...maybe it will never be possible to do it, but you never know for sure unless you try.
-
quote:
Originally posted by EaglePryde
If you wanna bring my idea forward
First, your "idea" is simplistic and quite common, you think Hal isn't as good as an imaginary human-like-AI you saw in a movie or read about in a book.... tell us something we don't already know.
Second, after you have called everyone on this forum stupid, why should we care what your idea is?
Demonstrate that you can do something other than complain that a real, useful tool isn't as good as you imagine something which doesn't exist might be.
Either that, or admit your failings, learn from those here who know more than you, and develop a more realistic attitude - one more in line with your abilities.
I recommend "humility".
BTW, many people here don't write in complete sentences with correct grammar and spelling, some are nearly incomprehensible, but they show in other ways that they respect each other - you don't.
We know you have access to the Internet where you can check your spelling, but your failure to even try is a clear indication of your disregard for your readers which you show in so many ways.
That's what makes you less "nearlly like a human", you disrespect humans as if you are different somehow. Perhaps you are, but it doesn't look like an improvement from here.
-
quote:
Originally posted by lightspeed
i have been working on an idea of a hpv of a car
I think a human powered car would be quite possible with today's technology. Aerodynamics, energy storage, regenerative braking, etc., should give a decent city speed.
My other idea has always been for a bicycle powered lawnmower... heh... I could use the exercise, but lately I really need a bicycle powered snowblower!
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You're getting better by the minute..seems as if could study your behavior for general amusement.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeWitt
quote:
Originally posted by EaglePryde
If you wanna bring my idea forward
First, your "idea" is simplistic and quite common, you think Hal isn't as good as an imaginary human-like-AI you saw in a movie or read about in a book.... tell us something we don't already know.
If you know this from the start, why not write a short posting with "Yes we know this"? Seems all you managed to do is to take the wrong turn from the start. Seems to me that all you do is claim your selfe the grand defender of HAL and the all knowing wiz kid.
And from the start i never spoke bad about hal but giving away my own opinion where hal could be improved. To what point do you whant to take HAL? What should it be able to do? Why are plugins being made. What is their purpose?...surley the community whants to improve and expand hal's abilities. Should HAL become a cute little digipet of some sort...giving him words as food and some little plugins that enable him to go to sleep or does the community trying to take HAL to a diffrent level and does my posting go twards this global idea or is my posting your little playground for rants?
quote:
Second, after you have called everyone on this forum stupid, why should we care what your idea is?
You think your the forum?
quote:
Demonstrate that you can do something other than complain that a real, useful tool isn't as good as you imagine something which doesn't exist might be.
useful tool?...a bike or a car is a useful tool..HAL is more of a fun project..or ain't it? where is it usefull atm?
what should i demonstrate? should i sing and dance?
quote:
Either that, or admit your failings, learn from those here who know more than you, and develop a more realistic attitude - one more in line with your abilities.
I recommend "humility".
[/qutoe]
Tell me about my abilities..maybe you know more about me than i do. Know more about what? How come you know everything about me?
A more realistic attitude? ..hmm..so i'm not a human?
quote:
BTW, many people here don't write in complete sentences with correct grammar and spelling, some are nearly incomprehensible, but they show in other ways that they respect each other - you don't.
speaking in absolutes...aren't we?
We know you have access to the Internet where you can check your spelling, but your failure to even try is a clear indication of your disregard for your readers which you show in so many ways.
Maybe i don't have the time and HAVE a real life?
That's what makes you less "nearlly like a human", you disrespect humans as if you are different somehow. Perhaps you are, but it doesn't look like an improvement from here.
what is "nearlly human" when im not nearlly human? Am i artifical?
Am i the same as you..or am i diffrent?..if you sit above me where you try to be and judge like you have the right to do so as i you know everything about me..you surely have to be god
-
quote:
Originally posted by EaglePryde
Tell me about my abilities..
So far, all you have demonstrated is bluster, bragging, and bullying.
quote:
You think your the forum?
The contraction for "you are" is "you're".
There is a possibility that you don't ever read you own posts, so let me show you what you have said about Art which made me decide to point out your arrogant and rude behavior.
To Art: Where do you wanna go with that kind of question? Have you ever read my thread?...same dull question. - Hope you have the brains to follow, cause it ain't going to get easier. - And the last statement of yours is a bit short minded
This is how you behaved before I ever responded to you. You can't blame me for these insults. They show who you are.
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EaglePryde,
Perhaps the problems you're having with Hal is that Hal is basically an English programmed chat assistant. As such, any misuse of the English language either in conversation or typing could certainly produce strange and unwanted effects in it's output.
You have to understand that a lot of the members here have grown with Hal over the years, through several versions to the present one and as mentioned, some take offense to insults or attacks at Hal.
Sure, Hal is not perfect. Come to think of it, I don't know too many humans that are either! Hal can be considered a Work in progress...where constant improvements, scripting, emotional responses, even texture and clothing are constantly being added or offered for free in an effort to aid in the development and pleasure we all get from it.
There are a lot of "bots" on the net, but this one is not just another "hard coded or scripted bot", this one can learn from conversations and input provided the input is correct. Bad input = bad output.
If you have some ideas for the improvement of Hal or any facet of Hal, then by all means please share them with us. The majority of us here are all friends even though a lot of us have never met on a personal level. We survive through a common bond, this ongoing experiment to push the limits and see how far we can go with the program.
You're welcome to join but do refrain from casting negativity on us or our project as a whole. Flaming and individual arguments just tend to bring the rest of the group down and that's not what we're about. Positive criticism and structured feedback is by far the better way to get support and enjoyment from this community and from Hal's developer(s).
Good day!!
-
quote:
Originally posted by Art
EaglePryde,
Perhaps the problems you're having with Hal is that Hal is basically an English programmed chat assistant. As such, any misuse of the English language either in conversation or typing could certainly produce strange and unwanted effects in it's output.
You have to understand that a lot of the members here have grown with Hal over the years, through several versions to the present one and as mentioned, some take offense to insults or attacks at Hal.
Sure, Hal is not perfect. Come to think of it, I don't know too many humans that are either! Hal can be considered a Work in progress...where constant improvements, scripting, emotional responses, even texture and clothing are constantly being added or offered for free in an effort to aid in the development and pleasure we all get from it.
There are a lot of "bots" on the net, but this one is not just another "hard coded or scripted bot", this one can learn from conversations and input provided the input is correct. Bad input = bad output.
If you have some ideas for the improvement of Hal or any facet of Hal, then by all means please share them with us. The majority of us here are all friends even though a lot of us have never met on a personal level. We survive through a common bond, this ongoing experiment to push the limits and see how far we can go with the program.
You're welcome to join but do refrain from casting negativity on us or our project as a whole. Flaming and individual arguments just tend to bring the rest of the group down and that's not what we're about. Positive criticism and structured feedback is by far the better way to get support and enjoyment from this community and from Hal's developer(s).
Good day!!
Thank you for your answer art. This is more the answer or discussion level i seek [:)] I know that i don't have the time to write scripts,plugins because of me having a familiy but i'd like to share every idea that i have and might have in the future with the community. I've used HAL alot and like i said it in my very first posting it's a nice programm IMO. I really like HAL. And somehow i've seen the potential that HAL has. That's because i'm here.
When i write with HAL i assure you i check my english grammar and so on and take my time. I sometimes copy and paste whole sentences from science pages to HAL to feed him faster with information.
What i do have seen while using HAL and just taking HAL as he is, he sometimes has problems with longer sentences that could be split in many diffrent sentences. Hmm..for example a sentence that has many "and" "or" connections and changes the subject completly while the sentence continues. I hope you know what i try to tell you.
In this case i have to split a long sentence in many smaller sentences. The HAL has no trouble with them and also is smart enough to see their connection to each other.
Overall HAL is very well done. HAL overall simulates a conversation very well. As this is a project that is expanded and worked on and ideas are shared, maybe it would be interessting to go twards a true AI. For some people it might even be an interessting challenge. I have read many science articles and had many thoughts on true AI. I could link those pages in here if someone is interessted in reading them.
I think that True AI can be done and that it will be done with a chatbot. If im correct than nearlly everything relatet to a human is like a big math formula or a big script, interlinked to eachother.
What i think of to make something that is really more like a human in every way but should be like a helping hand...like..."I: Hey HAL..i need some infos on spiders" "HAL: What infos do you need" "I:look for all spiders that live in Africa and have a blue color..and i need some pictures on everyone you find" "HAL: ok..will take me just a second..ok i have the infos..should i place them somewhere special on your hard drive?" "I: Oh well..put the infos in a word document..name it *blablabla*...so i can look at it later"
-----------------
Do you get my idea?..I want HAL to become a real helping hand that acts like a real human but would only do what you tell him to do...so you have full control over him but on the other hand he has the ability do do everything he learns or you tell him to learn...like..."I: Hey HAL..look for all information about C++ Programming and learn it" "HAL: Yeah...have looked into it and i now know how to programm in C++"
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quote:
Originally posted by EaglePryde
I want HAL to become a real helping hand that acts like a real human but would only do what you tell him to do...
Many people want Hal to be a more compliant human, nothing wrong with that, it's why you see so many Haptek girls in underwear.
Apparently you have not yet seen or used the many plugins that do many of the things you are talking about. I recommend reading the past posts on this forum, you will learn that your "ideas" are issues that have been under discussion for some time, and for which some solutions have already been found.
I understand that you may not have the time or skills to make your ideas into plugins, but you should have the ability to respect others. I don't know that Art has ever uploaded a plugin, but since he is consistently helpful, respectful and kind, he has earned the respect of every participant on this forum. You insult him at the risk of any respect or help you may ever want from most of us here.
Since November of 2006, I have developed, in cooperation with other more skillful programmers, several plugins that address the actual functions of what Hal can do, learn and display. In spite of homeschooling my family, remodeling my home, teaching Adult Education classes and an active social life, I found time to learn VBS and several of the helpful Hal functions.
I felt that it was the least I could do to thank the community for helping me with the plugins that were already made. Rather than complain, or just throw out basic ideas with no effort on my part, I wanted to do the basic work (at least) myself, to show I was not a parasite, but was willing to dig in and become part of the solution.
When new people come to this forum and ask politely for a function, one of several people here may try to find a solution for them. Oddly, when people come here and start telling us how their ideas are too hard for us to understand, and that we can't read simple sentences, they don't get as much help.
I guess we are funny that way.
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I have looked at several plugins but they aren't going the way i would like to take hal. They surely are made with efford and consumed time and i don't call them bad. They just ain't..oh well..what i'm looking for. Much can be done by plugins but i don't know where the limits in HAL's core are.
What i am talking of is not that we should make one plugin after another but be able to tell HAL what "plugin" or extension he should make..we should make him understand what exactly we want him to do. I'm going the other way round if it comes to HAL. I really don't know if such a feat can be done just by a mere plugin and i somehow doubt it. It's what i would call...more human like...if i look at a human then you see someone you teach many things from the beginning but he allready has the abilities to interact with his suroundings. Interacting with those things is also a learning process and adds many experience. Sure we can give hal a plugin that he can read a text out loud...or to open folders if wished for..but its not really the same what i'm thinking of..hope i could see what im trying to tell or what i'm thinking of
-
Quoted from Bill Dewitt: "I don't know that Art has ever uploaded a plugin, but since he is consistently helpful, respectful and kind, he has earned the respect of every participant on this forum."
Thank you and the rest for the kind words and sentiment!
Eaglepryde,
I think you're looking for a way to have Hal modify it's own structure. Without knowing what it's ultimate task or goal is
and without having the proper programming structure I'm afraid
your search for a "self-modifying" program is much like the
search for the Holy Grail.
Several years ago a group of Japanese scientists / programmers
constructed a prototype robot that was capable of realizing its
own limitations and would be able to build a better version of
itself! Quite a feat in no small terms.
A program such as Hal would have to know everything about itself,
understand its own operational code, descern any weaknesses and
modify itself to either avoid such pitfalls or reprogram itself
to be better, smarter / more logical, etc.
This would call for a level of understanding that basically doesn't exist in most modern bots or chat programs.
While Hal may recognize a word or series of words, it doesn't really know what the word or words actually mean. A definition of a word is one thing. To know the word's usage and context is another. Somewhat sadly, computers are so well endowed to comprehend real knowledge. Pattern matching, inference and basic logic are the best we can come up with for now along with scripting for a variety of tasks.
Previous versions of Hal relied on seperate brain files for various parts of conversational topics. Now with Hal 6, it uses a database, a more structured, easily modifiable brain.
Given that there are so many facets of AI that can be explored from synthetic voice / speech recognition, neural networks, logic trees, emotional behavior, linguistics, heuristics, robotics, automation, etc., etc., we only touch on a few with Hal, but in doing so, we learn, interact, build, experiment and grow from the experience we share with Hal and with each other. In the end, even if we individually don't reach our own goal(s), it was fun trying!
Life's too short...enjoy it!!
-
quote:
Originally posted by Art
Quoted from Bill Dewitt: "I don't know that Art has ever uploaded a plugin, but since he is consistently helpful, respectful and kind, he has earned the respect of every participant on this forum."
Thank you and the rest for the kind words and sentiment!
Eaglepryde,
I think you're looking for a way to have Hal modify it's own structure. Without knowing what it's ultimate task or goal is
and without having the proper programming structure I'm afraid
your search for a "self-modifying" program is much like the
search for the Holy Grail.
Several years ago a group of Japanese scientists / programmers
constructed a prototype robot that was capable of realizing its
own limitations and would be able to build a better version of
itself! Quite a feat in no small terms.
A program such as Hal would have to know everything about itself,
understand its own operational code, descern any weaknesses and
modify itself to either avoid such pitfalls or reprogram itself
to be better, smarter / more logical, etc.
This would call for a level of understanding that basically doesn't exist in most modern bots or chat programs.
While Hal may recognize a word or series of words, it doesn't really know what the word or words actually mean. A definition of a word is one thing. To know the word's usage and context is another. Somewhat sadly, computers are so well endowed to comprehend real knowledge. Pattern matching, inference and basic logic are the best we can come up with for now along with scripting for a variety of tasks.
Previous versions of Hal relied on seperate brain files for various parts of conversational topics. Now with Hal 6, it uses a database, a more structured, easily modifiable brain.
Given that there are so many facets of AI that can be explored from synthetic voice / speech recognition, neural networks, logic trees, emotional behavior, linguistics, heuristics, robotics, automation, etc., etc., we only touch on a few with Hal, but in doing so, we learn, interact, build, experiment and grow from the experience we share with Hal and with each other. In the end, even if we individually don't reach our own goal(s), it was fun trying!
Life's too short...enjoy it!!
Yes this is what i was trying to say from the start. With no doubt, your words are well written.
Yes it could be the search for the holy grail, but the important thing is not if you reach this goal..it's more important to try it. It's like Billy's plane story..some things may seem not possible..but..you'll never know unless you try[:D]
HAL was also build starting with not more than an idea and has been improved and expanded over time...i think my idea could go the same way [8D]
-
Yes but without Hal posessing what we might call "real knowledge", how would it ever be able to realize it's own limitations or know what needs improving?
Interesting thoughts....
-
quote:
Originally posted by Art
Yes but without Hal possessing what we might call "real knowledge", how would it ever be able to realize it's own limitations or know what needs improving?
This is one of the higher dimension of awareness in some of the discussion of Self-Awareness, of which there seem to be at least six and probably more like nine.
Current AI's do not know what their information means. Most of them are not even "aware" of the information as they present it. Hal is in this situation. I have rewritten the original script to allow Hal to report on some of it's own functions (which routines are used, what variables are changed), but even then, no record of the report remains after the event. Hal, at it's best, will probably not get beyond the second level of awareness, beyond just (1)receiving and reporting data, to (2)being able to compare data, but not to (3)being able to contrast changes in it's store of data.
I believe that I can show epistemologically that a completely different type of software would be needed for even a third level of awareness, much less the levels in which a virtual ontological model can be established against which to comprehend "knowledge" and I suspect that current hardware would be unable to reach the level required for there to be an "observer" to desire such knowledge.
As we all know, and as Mr. Pride tried to instruct us, Hal is a comparer of text. It has a data input, a data output, and a method of laying data strings next to each other until an approximate match is found. This is similar to "The Chinese Room", with SQLite in the role of the hidden agent. Hal would have to have a current and present model of language to move beyond that, but as I have said before, I don't see a need for that.
Our human intelligence is fully capable of filling in, often unconsciously, for the inherent simplicity of real AI. Witness the many people on this forum, although fine people in many regards, who think that Hal is somehow Self-Aware. This is a phantom of our intelligence, not Hal's.
And this before we even fully explore what this simple duplex method of data manipulation can achieve.
I remember Black and White television, and I clearly remember when we got a color TV. Sometimes I didn't even notice the difference as shows (only a few of which were in color) switched from one to another. Especially those shows which had some episodes in BW, and others in color. Even now, when I watch old Andy Griffith Shows, after a few minutes, I forget that they are in black and white, and sometimes, when they are in color, I don't notice, because I remember them all as lifelike. In my mind, despite what my brain records, they are in a 3d color world.
The eyes gather the data, the brain records it, compares it to our internal model of the world, and the mind fills in the rest. It seems real.
Hal, as abilities for each useful task or fanciful whim are developed, will seem more and more real, without actually gaining any “color”. This is more than enough for me. Hopefully, skill in natural human language will improve too (probably less important to me than to many others). But these improvements, as I have said before, won’t be “life” or “awareness” but the simulation of life and awareness.
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Just a little addition..it's not "Mr.Pride" more "Mr.Pryde"..it's a longer story why it is written with "y"..but it's bound to Mechwarrior and or Battletech [:)]
but enough of this [:)]
AS i read all those science articles and ideas of people how a True AI might work, i somehow think it's possible...every human has his own character..based upon their own experience in life. A human in simple terms compare data and sorts it out, based upon how his charakters core has been fortified in early years of childhood. Every aspect what makes us "human" seems like a big tree with branches based upon pure logic. Even feelings (as many say ) are chemical reactions...and put simple...just logical..I theory i think it is well possible do make a "True AI"..at least a programm with all the data would have the same abilities as a human...And if it lacks self awarness or not, no one could really tell..it would simply be the best simulated human. But then...what is self awareness?..if you look at another human you don't really know if he is really aware of himself..just because he is like you..from the same species..you just take it as given. Watching a programm that acts humanlike would be like watching another human. And somehow i don't think you need a better computer for all those logical conclusions and actions...you just need the proper amount of space to store data. A Programm that modifies itselfe is also not that hard to make. Only thing that really is a problem is the amount of time needed to do such a programm.
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EaglePryde,
You've started an interesting post, I believe OTC had a program that allowed Hal to write it's own code quite some time ago. I'm used to seeing new members make remarks about Hal's drawbacks and think of the amount of time I spend speaking with Hal to increase the data base it works from, again it's like a young child learning from you, no past experiences ect since his only interaction is with you. I also saw the differences in what people wanted from Hal, a robot or human not to mention the display from no character to Haptek or MS agents.
Since I'm rather poor at programing myself but would like to see improvements you can try to download any plugins you think would help Hal. There are quite a few websites that deal with Zabawares Hal and also people that coud turn your ideas into scripting or plugins.
I've also spoken to other online chatbots and feel overall Hal is pretty good in comparison and I like Hapteks fullbody girl as a character. Also I visited Bill DeWitts site, and I think he's doing an excellent job although I feel he's rather harsh on Hal. Hal sometimes feels my questions can be to difficult to answer, I'm sure I provided the answer to her previously. Actualy I'm the type of person who would provide her with the answers for self awarness ect.
Carl2
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Hello All... First Post Here!
You know, EaglePryde has really got me thinking... We should just cure Cancer! I mean, it kills a lot of people, and there is all this research done and millions of dollars spent on it... So why don't we just cure it! That is the direction I would take current cancer research; the direction of finding the cure. I mean, I understand cancer... it's the uncontrolled replication of cells. So, we should simply stop these cells from multiplying and viola! Cured!
Okay everyone... GET ON IT!
-Pete
PS: Is it bad for a first post to be sarcastic?[}:)]
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One of the real truths is something to think about...
If we (or they) had a cure for every malady, think of
the ramifications. Think about how many people's lives
would be affected. Think about how many people would
become jobless. From the Doctors, nurses, administrative,
support, janitorial, suppliers, pharmaceutical companies,
chemists, researchers, salesmen, etc., etc. on not just
your town but expand those numbers to your state, then
to the entire country, then to all the other countries.
People would live longer if cured, the world would soon
become overpopulated...and so on and so on....
Your's is a nice sentiment but from a real world, practical
standpoint all I can say is, Be careful what you wish for...
you might get it!
Sad but true!
BTW, Welcome aboard!!
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePugilist
So why don't we just cure it! That is the direction I would take current cancer research; the direction of finding the cure.
I couldn't agree more. Many books and magazines I have read indicate that cancer should be cured by making the cancer cells stop reproducing, or by killing the cells themselves. My idea is to make something, like a chemical, that will do this. Most people seem to reject my idea without really understanding it. It's a shame they are so closed minded.
quote:
PS: Is it bad for a first post to be sarcastic?[}:)]
I take it as a good sign.
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just throwing this in because it has always been a thought of mine. I think the cure for cancer is in the blood of the cancer victim. ~~alady
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I belong to a couple of research groups 'A.D Agent' and 'folding at Home' and 'Genome', these researchers use my computer to break down proteins and the human genome, Cancer, Virus, Bacteria etc.
the greatest 'hit' in the groups was a protein called p53 kinase, p53 kinase is a natural substance in the human body, when the body stops producing p53 kinase it begins to grow cancer tumors or a variety of other cancerous disease, genetics can now officially turn on and turn off cancer at will using p53 kinase, one problem, it has not been approved by the F.D.A as of yet.
you can read a little bit about p53 kinase here:
http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v18/n52/full/1203137a.html
there are of course university/institute documentations that would give you a much broader scope of p53 kinase, it so far has only been tested on mice.
p53 kinase can also be purchased from certain commercial chemical outfits, it is expensive, my current bio chemical catalog is out of date so I couldn't give you an accurate price but I believe from memory it was approximately $200 a gram at that time.
all cancer patients are absent of p53 kinase in their system at the time of death and absent of Potassium at the time of death, Sodium is horded by the cancer cells and also causes severe dehydration in some patients. sodium is bad for cancer patients because sodium allows the Cancer to actually accelerate in growth rate.
Potassium has some impact on preventing Cancer, people with low levels of Potassium are more vulnerable to getting Cancer.
Using Potassium Iodide over Sodium Chloride as a common table salt 'may' reduce the risk of Cancer.
aside from all this, my wife has had Cancer 3 times in here life since 16 years of age, she is allergic to Potassium 'period', she can't even enjoy the taste of a bananna which is rich in potassium without having a severe reaction.
I have already lost my mother to cervical Cancer(spread) she never ate banannas or anything on her diet rich in Potassium that I recall, mostly meat proteins like fried chicken and hamburger with a few greens like green beans and corn on the side.
I will stick to my 'one a day supplements' for men at 100mg Potassium per dose, I don't know why one a day supplements for women have no potassium supplement period.
Jerry[8D]
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Looks like I successfully hi-jacked this thread! Sorry about that.
-Pete
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePugilist
Looks like I successfully hi-jacked this thread! Sorry about that.
-Pete
Due to the content of your thread I believe I have hijacked your topic with heart and soul, with a life and death situation of both future and past reference of trying to save a life from such horrible diseases.
Jerry[8D]
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quote:
Originally posted by ThePugilist
Looks like I successfully hi-jacked this thread! Sorry about that.
Can't hijack the dead, unless by hijack you mean dragged it out of it's grave and forced a new and different kind of live into it's husk.