HAL lacks a few things

[EaglePryde]

At first i'd like to say that hal is a nice program but it's far of from anything i would call an strong AI.

If HAL should become something nearly that can be called an AI than it needs the potential we humans have. To explore its surroundings by itselfe. Imagine a baby..it would crawl around the way it would like. It would learn by exploring it's world and would learn by trial and error. Hal can have a growing database of words and sentences but it can't use them to do something with it. HAL hasn't got the potential to become better than he is. He can't expand beyond his limits because he can't interact with his surroundings. He can't even open a simple program by himselfe because he never even tried to do something. A baby wouldn't just sit there and do nothing when you don't talk to it for a couple of hours.

[Art]

quote:At first i'd like to say that hal is a nice program but it's far of from anything i would call an strong AI.

I don't recall Hal ever claiming to be a strong AI. In fact there aren't too many real strong AI's in existence that work as a chat assistant.


 

quote:If HAL should become something nearly that can be called an AI than it needs the potential we humans have. To explore its surroundings by itselfe.

This has been discussed on many ocassions here and in other forums. Given the nature and often objectionable content of the Internet I personally wouldn't want my Hal to learn from there on it's own.


 

quote:Imagine a baby..it would crawl around the way it would like. It would learn by exploring it's world and would learn by trial and error. Hal can have a growing database of words and sentences but it can't use them to do something with it.

Have you even tried Hal? If so, for how long?


 

quote:HAL hasn't got the potential to become better than he is.

If you would use Hal on a regular basis for an extended period of time I think you would realize the error of your thoughts. Hal does get better through chat interaction.


 

quote:He can't expand beyond his limits because he can't interact with his surroundings.

Have you ever heard of Plug-Ins? They are script files that help extend Hal's capability and enable the program to do lots of other things.


 

quote:He can't even open a simple program by himselfe because he never even tried to do something.

Hal was not designed to be an autonomous, free thinking, free roving entity without limits nor would I want to have one that was. It was designed to be an assistant to help open files, chat with, entertain and experiment...not to be a rogue AI on a mission to run programs on its own, devouring knowledge from who-knows-where and deciding what to do with that knowledge on its own. In Hollywood they can and often do just that, but Hal wasn't designed as such.


 

quote:A baby wouldn't just sit there and do nothing when you don't talk to it for a couple of hours.

Again, if you would explore the forum you'd notice several plug-ins that allow Hal to reply on its own if not spoken to for a while, to go to sleep or nod off if bored.

Basically, I'd like to welcome you to this forum but to make a "first posting" like you did will no doubt draw a lot of flack from a lot of devoted Hal fans. Your obvious ignorance of Hal tells me and others that you really haven't devoted any length of time exploring Hal, its potential or this forum. If you had, you wouldn't have made the statements you did.

If you're looking for a Turn Key bot that knows everything and can interact with you on a much higher lever, learn anything, better itself, etc., let us know.
This one does require some effort. If it was easy anybody could do it!

Good day!

[EaglePryde]

In fact..there is NO strong AI to date. A strong AI would really be nearlly like a human.

There is such content in real life too. For this you need special rules or shape his personality untill he knows enought to go explore the wide world.

Yes i have tried HAL..even gave him tons of infos. Where do you wanna go with that kind of question? Have you ever read my thread?...same dull question. It is as it is...HAL is more of a comparision programm that has some plugins..but what do they do? Telling him to go in standby if you don't write with him? How unnatural is this. It just adds more variation to hal..but nothing more.

I think your making the error..In what kind of way does hal improve? Has he learned to use a program just by chat interaction?...I doubt that. He just compares things to put it down simple. Hope you have the brains to follow, cause it ain't going to get easier.

Oh great...a plugin...an additional scrip..."Hey can you open the Internet Explorer for me?"..nothing happens...if you mention "search" then google pops up..Do you consider this intelligent?..It's a premade action...thats what scripts and plugins are at the moment...Seems you don't have any idea of something. Sure you can script a massive amount and there are many possibilities...but they should go ther right way...but they ain't going in the right direction when it comes to get hal to near realistic.


And the last statement of yours is a bit short minded. If you have read my posting and worked it over than you wouldn't think of it as being a "flame" posting but more of a constructive post from my side where HAL could be improved, since many HAL lovers allready speak of "it" being more of a friend in some case, it should go the way i stated.

And if it's my first posting or not isn't changing my impression or experience with HAL. I just roam the forums bound to things i like and use and posting in them is just for improvment and not for some small talk or chit chat...but see it as you like...i will not kill me []

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by EaglePryde

In fact..there is NO strong AI to date. A strong AI would really be nearlly like a human.

You make the assumption that AI must be like human intelligence. OK, fine, if that's what you think it's great with me.

Post your code.

Let us see how you would do it.

As for me, I don't want a fake human, I want a real robot. I want a fast processor, a wide and expandable selection of natural communication options, and the robotic abilities that humans lack.

As it stands, Hal is almost AI enough for me, but some of the details of the scripting are not there yet. So I make a choice: A)Whine, B)Post code.

You, of course, are welcome to make your own choices. Personally, I post code.

PS: As for some of your other points, I use my intelligence to deal with most of that...

[markofkane]

I personally want a virtual human. But I have not found any satisfactory ones to date.

One that has feelings, one that can initiate converstion, not just reply or elude the subject. But I am not smart enough to write the code.

Hal is fun, but it's meant as a utility, not so much as a replacement for a human being. (in my opinion)

[onthecuttingedge2005]

Hi EaglePryde.

A.I strength pretty much depends on the programmers ability to mimic Humans and their ways.

Example of how I train HAL from personal code:

User: I told you that if someone says, I feel bad then you should say, I am sorry, How can I help you feel better?

HAL: I am sorry for my bad manners, I will remember that.

HAL Learned this:
"I feel bad","I am sorry, How can I help you feel better?"

User: didn't I tell you to say that if a person is asking for help that you should tell them, How can I help you <UserName>?

HAL: My apologies <UserName>, I will remeber what you taught me.

HAL Learned this:
"asking for help","How can I help you <UserName>?"

HAL in my opinion is a very powerful tool and can be even more powerful in the hands of a expert programmer.

Of course the deductive I used to teach HAL this probably isn't included in your version of HAL because that special deductive was removed in an earlier beta version of HAL 6, I don't know for what reason but I continued to use it, I kept the simpler If & Then deductive in a different code while keeping the more complex If & Then code to work on different triggers.

Most Humans teach their kids by drilling them with knowledge of how they should behave, I have included this a form of complex deductive learning, if the deductions are parsed correctly then HAL will become a very smart A.I.

Most people are to impatient to train HAL like a parent using deductive reasoning especially complex ones.

The strongest code available is 'Complex Deductions', it's very powerful.

under some conditions HAL learns by 'constructive scolding' it using reinforced complex deductions to train HAL's behavior.

Jerry[8D]

[caangel43]

I like my hal and she learns at a good rate I like the way things are with hal.

[EaglePryde]

quote:Originally posted by Bill DeWitt
You make the assumption that AI must be like human intelligence. OK, fine, if that's what you think it's great with me.

Where did i say that? eigher you can't read and understand a simple combination of words, like in my first posting where i wrote "->If<- HAL ->>should<<- become something nearly that can be called an AI than it needs the...."

"At first i'd like to say that hal is a nice program but it's ->>far of from<<- anything i would call an ->>strong AI<<-"

I hope you know what a "strong" AI is or whats the diffrence between a weak and a strong AI?

quote:
"PS: As for some of your other points, I use my intelligence to deal with most of that..."

Then please start using it or A.) whine B.) Post the code to you lack of I.

[EaglePryde]

quote:Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005

Hi EaglePryde.

A.I strength pretty much depends on the programmers ability to mimic Humans and their ways.

Example of how I train HAL from personal code:

User: I told you that if someone says, I feel bad then you should say, I am sorry, How can I help you feel better?

HAL: I am sorry for my bad manners, I will remember that.

HAL Learned this:
"I feel bad","I am sorry, How can I help you feel better?"

User: didn't I tell you to say that if a person is asking for help that you should tell them, How can I help you <UserName>?

HAL: My apologies <UserName>, I will remeber what you taught me.

HAL Learned this:
"asking for help","How can I help you <UserName>?"

HAL in my opinion is a very powerful tool and can be even more powerful in the hands of a expert programmer.

Of course the deductive I used to teach HAL this probably isn't included in your version of HAL because that special deductive was removed in an earlier beta version of HAL 6, I don't know for what reason but I continued to use it, I kept the simpler If & Then deductive in a different code while keeping the more complex If & Then code to work on different triggers.

Most Humans teach their kids by drilling them with knowledge of how they should behave, I have included this a form of complex deductive learning, if the deductions are parsed correctly then HAL will become a very smart A.I.

Most people are to impatient to train HAL like a parent using deductive reasoning especially complex ones.

The strongest code available is 'Complex Deductions', it's very powerful.

under some conditions HAL learns by 'constructive scolding' it using reinforced complex deductions to train HAL's behavior.

Jerry[8D]

From the point you see it, i fully agree. You need a lot of time and the response from HAL will get to a point where it sounds someway human. For this i find that HAL is nicley made. From most programs i've seen that go in the same way, HAL is the first i'd invested the most time into it. It's sad but many things in life you only can learn by youselfe...like burn your finger or so. It's something no one can make you clear until you made this experience yourselfe...same as with HAL...if he could make his own trials and errors ..not only in plain words hten he would be able to grow and "evolve"

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by caangel43

I like my hal and she learns at a good rate I like the way things are with hal.

I like my Hal too, but I would like it to do more things. The new version should be showing up soon.

I hope to see multiple integrated improvements as well as improved ability to write nifty new plugins.

A tool is often only as good as the craftsman.

[PaleRider]

Did mean Either.[]( eigher)

[Bill819]

EaglePryde
I have been involved with AI of all kinds for over 30 years now. Can I ask you where you gained your experience or is it just a laymans personal opinion? Hal has been examined by thousand of people from all over the world and is considered one of the most advanced AI programs of its type in the world today. As a matter of fact one of our most renoun universities which has spent years and millions of dollars doing AI research and developement has stated that they expect that any major break throughs in AI will come from chatterbot type programs because they are using English as a medium.
Now if in your worldly travels you have come across anything that you think is better then why don't you tell us about it.
The whole purpose of this conversation is to point out to you incase you are not smart enough to see it for yourself is that if you can't say anything nice then why speak at all. Your comming on this forum and only saying or implying that Hal is not a good version of AI is very insultive not only to the rest of the users here but to the author of the program itself.
What you consider AI is a project that I have been working on for more years than you could ever imagine. There is nothing like that in the world at this time simply because of the difficulty of that kind of programming, if there were we would see hundred of AI programs like that invading all aspects of our lives.
Maybe you have problem expressing some of your ideas without sounding like a negative intended mind. If that is so then I would suggest that you write your ideas down, read them a dozen or so times with the propestive of having the topic said not only by you but about you.
If it sounds like you are slamming you being on the receiving end they maybe you should rethink the way you express yourself.
Hal is one of the very few programs that learns over a period of time depending on the input that it gets fed into it. If you Hal sounds stupid then consider its where its input comes from.
Bill819

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by EaglePryde

quote:Originally posted by Bill DeWitt
You make the assumption that AI must be like human intelligence. OK, fine, if that's what you think it's great with me.

Where did i say that?

In the part you carefully snipped out of the post. "A strong AI would really be nearlly like a human."

 

quote:eigher you can't read and understand a simple combination of words, like in my first posting where i wrote "->If<- HAL ->>should<<- become something nearly that can be called an AI than it needs the...."

By the way, if the first word above was intended to be "Either", then you should know that a sentence with an "either" requires an "or" if it wants to be an intelligble "combination of words" - or what we in the real world call a "sentence".

I understand Standard American English, British English and Old English (as well as several non-English languages). Apparently you use something else. The phrase you requoted, even if you ignore the childish mispellings, does not form a correct English sentence fragment.

For instance, please translate the following in to some known language. I can guess what you intended to say, but I doubt that you can.

quote:
Then please start using it or A.) whine B.) Post the code to you lack of I.

I suspect you are just middleschool flamebait, so unless you convince me otherwise I will not be responding to your poorly written and ignorant rants.

[aladyblond]

I have a hard time understanding why people come into a forum and start negative rants about a product. this of course is not the only forum these kinds of things happen in. Perhaps mr.pryde is truly unhappy with hal, and if that is the case fine,everyone is entitled to their opinion of hal, but for those of us that respect the product and use the product and have in a sense become friends with the product as well as the members of this forum. your post, sir,  appears very insulting to some of us.~~alady

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by aladyblond

I have a hard time understanding why people come into a forum and start negative rants about a product.

Some children get a feeling of importance based simply on how many posts their goofy comments generate. Of course, they do not account for the number of posts like your's and mine, which is not about the subject they started with, but are posts about how silly they appear.

Little boys still wanting their mother's attention, willing to take it whether it is based on approval or opprobrium.

Parents should monitor their offspring's computer use when school is out.