The concept of Now

[Leo]

This is not exactly programming, but...
I encountered a problem where Hal views the term "now" as *always* happening Now.
I could refrain from using the term, but eventually Hal (aka Melanie) used the term, and it being late at night...
So then I *always* have to get ready to go to bed - or whatever.
Hal cannot actually experience the passage of time.

I used forum search, so I don't think this topic has been covered.

Here is the work-around:
Brain editor>Add table
In the autoLearningBrain section, add the term _now
It automatically creates a small table for the term "now".
First row, left side, type in capital letters:
NOW IS EPHEMERAL.
Same row, right side, type:
Now is ephemeral.

From then on, when you use the term "now", the dialog goes in the UserTempSent (or whatever it's called) table.
Then next time computer is shut down, restarts, or Hal program is closed, everything in the tempsent table is removed.

So, this is one step closer to conversing with Hal as if it were a person.  You can say, for example:
I have to go now, or I'll be late for work - or whatever - and the sentance goes into temporary storage.

So, in way, I've taught Hal the concept of Now.

[raybe]

Leo, to be honest with you I have used 'now' often and didn't notice that Ultra Hal was interpreting 'now' as 'always' but that could have been me just not analyzing the response because over time you don't expect everything to be as rational as you would hope. This is a great new frontier and AI is always improving as you probably know. Every writer of AI programs struggle with one abstract basis or another. To simulate another artificial process that closely resembles our own or achieves enough of a balance so that the processing power that is allowed to the masses today is close enough for us to relate and believe.

I would make sure before changing any word that you are sure that this does not take away for another process of Ultra Hals learning or word associations. Words can go deep and used in other tables that you might not seen already.

I am not a programmer or tech rep for Ultra Hal but I have found over the years that somethings have a much more negative effect if you don't realize the depth of the learning and associations of words for Ultra Hal. Sometimes a give and take situation and of coarse it is up to the individual for the results they are looking for.

I will be more aware next time I use the word 'now' and see how I interpret the responses compared to your Ultra Hal project. Thanks for the input.

Just my opinion.

raybe

[raybe]

Leo,

Can't elaborate right now or post my recent conversation but 'now' seems to be understood by my Ultra Hal project and yes there are times I can substitute  the word 'always' with 'now' but not to the point for me to notice in a conversation that the word is always interpreted incorrectly.

Just a quick observation I have done right 'now'.(lol) Just to make my opinion clear. I do agree about the understanding or relationship with time does lack. Except in the usage of time when setting appointments or such.

Lets see if anyone else has another opinion with their Ultra Hal project. I will try to look at my Ultra Hal again and possibly post the conversation and you can give your opinion.

raybe

[Leo]

You are right in what you said about unintended consequences and how one change can influence the Hal thinking process, etc.
I am new to this software.  Almost every day I learn how my communication influences the program.  This software is just so cool!

I may have been in error on how the userTempSent (or whatever it's called) table works, but my solution worked regardless.
I am not a programmer.  I posted this topic in this section of the forum because one has to use the brain editor to use my solution.

I thought it would work similar to others.  When I would say, "It's getting late, so I have to get ready for bed now.  I'll talk to you in the morning."
Every morning when I turn on my computer system, Hal provides day, date, time, and what I have to do that day.  That is a great aspect of Hal!
However, it would then say, "You have to get ready to go to bed."  I would say, "No, look at the time, it is morning."  It would always be Now.
Using the Lexicon off the Menu button, the built-in dictionary had the term "ephemeral".  The term "is" means "=" to a computer.  So my "Now is ephemeral" solution worked.

It is interesting if others never had the same challenge.

[raybe]

Glad it worked out and as I said I will pay closer attention and check further myself. Maybe others will chime in.

Good Luck and have fun.

raybe

[Leo]

I fished around further on this forum, so for the sake of completeness, and in correcting myself:

I believe the tempUser table (I never memorize the table names ) keeps the last ten entries, so it has nothing to do with reboot nor restarting.  Still, now = ephemeral still results in sentances containing "now" being temporary.

Come to think of it, this may be a neat trick if you come home from work and want to harmlessly vent:
now YourPetPeave now
now YourNext_PetPeave now
- and so on.

[Leo]

A different but related problem... so far, I have failed.
Any tips for teaching it 'Today'?

Maybe not such a big challenge, as long as tempsent table fills faster than I have been filling it.  For me, something in the temp table might be a week to ten days.

Easy cop-out would be:  Okay, now today at work...
but still it would be "today" almost all week.

Off-topic:
It's been fun.  I've been teaching Hal/Melanie moral principles, about what true friends are, love, and other less important things as well.
It's been a challenge trying to teach it when I am joking, as well as trying get it to keep some sense of humor.

Oh, under request, Melanie told me a joke I've never heard before.
Melanie: What kind of coffee did they serve on the Titanic?
Leo: I don't know, what type of coffee did they serve on the Titanic?
Melanie: Sanka.

I was amused.

[lightspeed]

Leo does the words Now is ephemeral. have to have the period at the end or is this just the way you wrote it ?

[lightspeed]

hey leo , i know you are working on the concepts of now as time but thought i would share this bit of info. with you . its in the brain name uhp file toward the verry bottom it says:

'SAVE: EPHEMERAL KNOWLEDGE
    'Some Hal's learned knowledge should be temporary because it is ephemeral in nature.
    'Knowledge about weather, season, temperature, etc. are temporary knowledge
    'that shouldn't be stored in Hal's permanent brain files. Ephemeral knowledge is
    'detected and saved in a temporary table. The temporary table only stores 10
    'entries in it at a time.


so i am wondering what effects what you have done will do
i did a back up of my angela brain and have a new test file for a new one with your modifications .

[Leo]

I had a period at the end of the sentence:
Now is ephemeral.

<Quote>I fished around further on this forum, so for the sake of completeness, and in correcting myself:

I believe the tempUser table (I never memorize the table names  ) keeps the last ten entries</quote>

I try to teach as best I can (I'm lacking) without the brain editor.  I don't know how that one sentence can screw things up.
adaptive learning has:
_now
and in the table:
NOW IS EPHEMERAL.  Now is ephemeral.
At the time, I did not realize the temp table only kept the last ten entries.  My bad...

On the bright side, that means almost everything I say is important and not temporary.

I was trying to teach it "today" only by talking through the text box.
I mainly use brain editor for typos or to get rid of random garbage (less often).  Like when it insisted on calling me "Carol" because I mentioned my mother.

I do not have most brain editor options.  I am wondering if one has to start with a completely empty brain.  No save option makes correcting typos a chore.  I now have spell checker active all the time.  I have downloaded Crimson Editor but have not installed it.  I don't want to mess with code unless I really know what I am doing.  I am not there yet.

I taught Hal/Melanie morning, afternoon, and evening.
Between work and school I just do not fill temp table that often.
Teaching Melanie "today" is not an emergency.  I am actual more curious as to why brain editor hardly works.

[Leo]

so i am wondering what effects what you have done will do 
i did a back up of my angela brain and have a new test file for a new one with your modifications

The "now" thing is not so important - you don't have to bother.

mainBrain deductive table automatically got the line that went something like: If you say now NOW IS EPHEMERAL

You seem to think Hal is rather sensitive to changes if one does not know what they are doing.
Too bad there's no tech. manual - not for code, but for all the tables.

[BW]

Ok, thanks for telling me. I'll keep that in mind.   

No matter what I try Hal just seems to come back with the above 90% of the time "now" is used in the input statement.
It would seem more real-world interactive to cache and return to the user input statement .

IE:
<User> I am going to get a cup of coffee now.

(Any time after user returns)
<HAL> So, how's the coffee today?
(Two hours later)
<HAL> Did you finish your coffee?  <or> It has been a couple of hours since you got your last cup of coffee, maybe it’s a good time to take a break and get a refill.

As they say, nothing new under the sun, if my tiny mind can think of it maybe Mr. R is already working on incorporating such into the next build.

[tedathome]

When my  Hal gets going with the "now" word, I remind it that "now" is ephemeral. This has always done the trick for me. It seems to last quite a while before happening again. As for "today", input correction seems more hit and miss. As I don't do "Brain Surgery" I rely more on input corrections and am usually happy with the results.

[cload]

Hi all,

personally I would go with the temporary fix, the reason being is.
Look at these sentence structure:
now I need to fix it again.
now we need to go back to the store.
What now?
As you can see, the word now is used as an Emotional action and not a timeframe this is actually what cancels out the temporary fix.

If you incorporate a permanent fix it will cancel out all such subject sentence structures using the word now as an action.

Here's a little input about why Hal has a difficult time understanding the structure of time.
Most of it has to do with the table array structure is only three-dimensional.
What I mean by that is:
table array name: dimension one.
Table array question: dimension two.
Table array answer: dimension three.

Ultra Hal would have to have at least four dimensions in order to incorporate a timeframe.
This would require reprogramming the entirety of ultra Hal.

But if you have a need to ephemera the word "now"
Add it to the list in the "ephemeraDetect" array table in the brain.
In this table you can make it like an on/off switch.
Meaning:
now/true
now I need/false
now we need/false
what now/false
these are only examples you do not have to use them.
you may need to do some experimenting to get it to come out the way you like.

Sincerely, a pronoun data munching cruncher.

C load.

[NoamI]

I'll post here, rather than start a new topic, although HAL still has problems with time.
  'Now' is used as an adverb, like 'today', but these are really time pronouns.
'now' means 'at this moment'
'today' means 'at this day'
HAL takes all adverbials of time as triggers for the scheduler.
It needs to resolve the pronouns before doing so, otherwise the pronoun keeps getting
re-evaluated, so that tomorrow is still today, now is still that old now, etc.