Author Topic: HELP NEEDED!  (Read 13799 times)

Cheela

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« on: November 10, 2004, 12:49:55 pm »
Hi,

Hal is new to me.  I am researching a natural language processing (NLP) University paper, and having discovered Ultra Hal, am very interested, and would be grateful for any feedback regarding its interaction with NLP.  

In short,does Hal relate to the semantics, morphology or syntax in the field of NLP?

Is interaction with Hal system led? is the user's input free or constrained?

What technologies are involved with Hal? eg:
  natural language understanding,
  natural language generation,
  information retrieval,
  information extraction,
  inference,
  database communication etc..

Are there any improvements/enhancements in the pipeline for Hal?

Thanks!!
Cheela [:D]
 

Bill819

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1483
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2004, 01:31:13 pm »
Why don't you just download the free version and start chatting. Hal has a large vocabulary but the initial brain power of about a 4 year old. It get smarter with lots of user input. It has an unlimited capacity to learn, well somewhat unlimited. It will, after a time take on the personality of its user. If you talk mean and dirty to it, it will respond in the same manner. If you shower it with affection, you will eventually get the same in return. Hal has the capacity to make associative connections between data as well as deductive reason functions.
Once you have used it for a while, I suggest you buy the commercial version because then after voice training, you can carry on conversations in plain English making it appear ever more human.
Bill
 

dihelson

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2004, 02:18:57 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by Cheela

Hi,

Hal is new to me.  I am researching a natural language processing (NLP) University paper, and having discovered Ultra Hal, am very interested, and would be grateful for any feedback regarding its interaction with NLP.  

In short,does Hal relate to the semantics, morphology or syntax in the field of NLP?

Is interaction with Hal system led? is the user's input free or constrained?

What technologies are involved with Hal? eg:
  natural language understanding,
  natural language generation,
  information retrieval,
  information extraction,
  inference,
  database communication etc..

Are there any improvements/enhancements in the pipeline for Hal?

Thanks!!
Cheela [:D]



Many of these things HAL doesn't do.
For example, if you say:

User: Beethoven was a great composer
Hal: Yes, Beethoven composed 9 symphonies

User: Yes, He was also a great pianist
Hal: Who was a great pianist? <==========

What a hell! We are talking about Beethoven or what ?
HAL doesn't understand that HE, SHE, or IT on the following sentence belongs to the same subject!
Someone could develop an script in order to fix this. When we talk with humans, we don''t have to say the subject all the time!

[]'s
Dihelson
 

Cheela

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2004, 04:42:05 pm »
Hi, and thank you for the responses, I appreciate it!
Cheela [:D]
 

vonsmith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2004, 04:49:26 pm »
dihelson,
Thanks for bringing up the pronoun issue. All chatbots have a problem connecting pronouns with nouns from one sentence to the next. Humans are pretty good at sorting this out, but sometimes even we have misunderstandings or we have to ask the other person for clarification.

When teaching Hal or even in normal conversation try to avoid pronouns other than I, you, or we. Those pronouns, within the context of a two person discussion, are generally clear, others are not.

One example of the pronoun problem in English is the problem of thee, thou, ye and you. The first three words are archaic now. They have been replaced with you and sometimes you all (y'all in U.S. southern dialect). Thou and thee addressed a singular person; ye and you addressed plural persons. Without singular and plural forms in our current language when one says, "Are you going?" we don't know if "you" is a single person or a group. That's why "you all" came into use, at least in some regions. A human might discern the correct usage from the conversational context, a chatbot can't do it as easily.

Another case is, "The boy saw a frog before he jumped into the lake." Now, did the boy or the frog jump into the lake? Only context might tell. English and other languages are full of these quandaries. Connecting pronouns is no small task for a chatbot. We can't solve it for Hal anytime soon.

When speaking to Hal, example:

Hal: I hate cats.
UserBad: I don't like them either. (Hal is thinking "them" who?)
UserGood: I don't like cats either. (Hal understands.)

Hal can't logically connect the two sentences. Each sentence must stand on its own. That is, each sentence must encapsulate a complete thought without regard to any other sentence. That's the best we can do for now.

=vonsmith=
 

dihelson

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2004, 06:02:49 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by vonsmith

dihelson,
Thanks for bringing up the pronoun issue. All chatbots have a problem connecting pronouns with nouns from one sentence to the next. Humans are pretty good at sorting this out, but sometimes even we have misunderstandings or we have to ask the other person for clarification.

When teaching Hal or even in normal conversation try to avoid pronouns other than I, you, or we. Those pronouns, within the context of a two person discussion, are generally clear, others are not.

One example of the pronoun problem in English is the problem of thee, thou, ye and you. The first three words are archaic now. They have been replaced with you and sometimes you all (y'all in U.S. southern dialect). Thou and thee addressed a singular person; ye and you addressed plural persons. Without singular and plural forms in our current language when one says, "Are you going?" we don't know if "you" is a single person or a group. That's why "you all" came into use, at least in some regions. A human might discern the correct usage from the conversational context, a chatbot can't do it as easily.

Another case is, "The boy saw a frog before he jumped into the lake." Now, did the boy or the frog jump into the lake? Only context might tell. English and other languages are full of these quandaries. Connecting pronouns is no small task for a chatbot. We can't solve it for Hal anytime soon.

When speaking to Hal, example:

Hal: I hate cats.
UserBad: I don't like them either. (Hal is thinking "them" who?)
UserGood: I don't like cats either. (Hal understands.)

Hal can't logically connect the two sentences. Each sentence must stand on its own. That is, each sentence must encapsulate a complete thought without regard to any other sentence. That's the best we can do for now.

=vonsmith=



Yes, Vonsmith,

But someone could invent a script to keep the subject into following sentences.

For example, If I say:

User: Beethoven was a great composer
The KEYWORD is Beethoven

Any HE on the following sentence would be assumed as HE=Beethoven
The same case with SHE, or IT.

If I I say a HE or a SHE that HAL could possibly don't understand, then let HAL ask, like humans do:

User: He was a great pianost
HAL: You mean Beethoven ? or are you talking about something else?

We humans sometimes do the same thing, when we don't know if a HE or A SHE belongs to the same subject.

A good script would make any HE or SHE or IT on the following sentence belong to the anterior subject. If the focus of the matter is Beethoven, then any HE would be considered as Beethoven. Then perhaps, on the 3 next sextences it would return to ZERO again.

Thanks,
Dihelson Mendonça
 

vonsmith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2004, 06:45:05 pm »
dihelson,

What about multiple pronouns/nouns?
Example:
My music teacher says Beethoven was a great composer.
He says other pianists aren't as talented.
He who? I guess "my music teacher"

We humans process this abstract data with hardly a thought, it is part of our automatic internal language processing. It seems so intuitive as to be simple, but it is not. Chatbots would have to know and understand a lot about general syntax and context rules, knowledge we take for granted.

Another example:
The mouse across the room scares me.
It should stay there.
or
He should stay there.
It is obvious to a human that "it" and "he" are the mouse, and "there" is "across the room". In this case "there" is used as an indefinite substitute for a name. Unfortunately, as with many English words, "there" can have many functions; as a pronoun, verb, adverb, noun, or adjective. How is Hal to know which, let alone what previous or following words or phrases to connect it with.

I don't know of any general rule that a chatbot can employ that applies to all possible variations and their derivatives. It really does get very messy quickly. There are thousands of different sentence structures Hal would have to decipher to connect pronouns and nouns. Incorrect user spellings and use of slang just make it worse.

If you can theorize a general solution you will become rich and we Hal users will like you a lot. [:D]

=vonsmith=
 

KnyteTrypper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
    • View Profile
    • http://www.knytetrypper.com/index.html
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2004, 10:05:50 pm »
This may or may not be a useful suggestion. In aiml, we use the <that> tag to indicate to a bot that the subject of the current exchange refers to the last thing the bot said, and replies can be varied according to the response to "that." This enables the bot to keep up with pronouns, as long as it understands that he/she/it refers to "that." Is it feasible to have Hal scan for pronouns, and invoke a similar <that> condition when it finds them? The <that> conditions have to be specifically written into aiml templates, but I assume Hal would have to be able to apply or not apply a <that> conditon based on his own grammar rules.



dihelson

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2004, 11:58:47 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by vonsmith

dihelson,

If you can theorize a general solution you will become rich and we Hal users will like you a lot. [:D]

=vonsmith=



Hello, Vonsmith,
Ok, you're right, but someone have to think about this problem, and we need to overcome it, because this is one of the biggest problems of HAL. I don't know how to solve, nor I have sufficient knowlegdge in order to solve it, but if this problem would not be faced directly as a MAIN goal, AI would never develop. It's time for a Genius soluction!
I hope this genius is already born, for the good future of AI. Without having solved the pronouns problem we are going nowhere.

[]'s
Dihelson Mendonça
 

vonsmith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2004, 11:12:47 am »
KnyteTrypper,
You're right about AIML. The <that> tag can be used to create pronoun targeted responses. Of course in AIML based chatbots the programmer has already preprocessed canned responses to many thousands of sentence forms. The pronoun linking is not done dynamically, it essentially is done by the programmer at programming time. This characteristic is one reason why I think Hal would be better as a hybrid; half Hal, half AIML bot.

onthecuttingedge2005,
You have written some very creative scripts before. I hope this one works as well as you hope. It would take Hal one step closer to being intelligent. I look forward to you finishing it so that we Hal fans can test it out.

I've given gender awareness some thought. There are many ways to add such to Hal. I concluded that there are many other "characteristics" that need to be in Hal's knowledge base. The best, most flexible way to do this to convert Hal to a data base type structure. I hope Robert Medeksza is doing just that. If done properly we can add many data fields that will help Hal identify context, gender, time, spacial relationships and ???

Thanks all for your comments. I like to see more lively and creative discussions on this forum.


=vonsmith=
« Last Edit: November 11, 2004, 12:17:50 pm by vonsmith »
 

dihelson

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2004, 12:05:18 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005
Hi Dihelson.
I have about a quarter of the script you are reffering too on the subject of Proper Noun gender is being done already.
I have much more to do and will be working on this script daily.
Here is a working but unfinished tid bit of the script you would like to have in your brain, remember that this is only a tid bit but you can have a little fun with it till I get the rest of the script done.
Best of Wishes and brand new discoveries.
Jerry.





Hello, Jerry,
Perhaps we're on the right direction now with this script. It's a spark on the darkness!
I hope as Vonsmith also said, that you could finish it.

Indeed, when we are children, we learn things bit by bit.
We learn that

a Woman is a She
a Cat is an animal
all women names can be treated as she and males names as HE.

A database of men and women names is not difficult to do.
Often, we Humans, when we find a brand new name, which is not listed on our mind's table, we have to ask someone if this new word is a SHE, a HE or IT, the same way HAL would do with it's table.

We learn a list of things that can be treated as HE, SHE or IT.

For instance, in German Language, we learn that almost every word has a particular Pronoun. You can't say for sure weather certain words should be considered as DIE or DAS. We need a table.
So, we need to build tables for HAL's identification.
Tables which teach weather certain things can be treated  as HE, SHE, or IT.
Perhaps only with a sufficient quantity of information gathered from these tables, it would be possible to consider certain subjects as HE, SHE, IT.  I know that unfortunatelly the problem is not as simple as this...this is only a part of it.

I will test the "way" this script works.
Thanks,
[]'s
Dihelson


 

vonsmith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 602
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2004, 12:31:08 pm »
dihelson,
I wish the English speaking world would capitalize nouns like the Germans. It would make things a little easier, at least for written language processing. [;)]

I believe "Sie" (you) is at least one, maybe the only one pronoun capitalized in German. English language doesn't include such conventions. [?]


=vonsmith=
 

Bill819

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1483
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2004, 05:21:32 pm »
A question for you guys. If a topic called Beethoven is opened why can't Hal assume that we are still talking about him? If Hal stays on topic then he might just assume you are talking about the same person even if he has to ask 'are we still talking about Beethoven'. It seems to me that might make the task a littler simpler.
Bill
 

dihelson

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2004, 01:43:19 am »
quote:
Originally posted by Bill819

A question for you guys. If a topic called Beethoven is opened why can't Hal assume that we are still talking about him? If Hal stays on topic then he might just assume you are talking about the same person even if he has to ask 'are we still talking about Beethoven'. It seems to me that might make the task a littler simpler.
Bill




Hello, Bill,
That's what I said on another message.
When we Humans talk about something, WE gather everything related to that topic. Say the topic is Beethoven.

What do we know about him?
Well,

01 - Beethoven was a Composer
02 - Beethoven composed 9 symphonies
03 - Beethoven became deaf
04 - After Beethoven became deaf he still composed much music
05 - etc etc etc...

So, I think even after we solve all this pronouns problem, we must get the TOPIC on focus and never get rid of it until we change the subject through some means.

Some days ago, I tried another software called ELIZA. It's a psychology software. You can talk much about psychology with it, and never have answers like "There's a Cow on the moon" :)
She doesn't know much, but talk very well about what she knows.

So, I suggest that HAL could have a basic brain with some minimal cognitive functions, and all the rest of knowleadge would be derived from Topics. I know that this is the current way, but not as I am saying... What I mean is that if we work on a specific topic, like Beethoven, somehow HAL should concentrate on this subject without any deviation, unless for temporary research on another relate topics. What are these relate topic? Classical Music, AND A FEW OTHERS, Nothing more, nothing less!! but remain even more restricted than the current way.

It's sad when we're TRYING to talk about Beethoven, for instance, and we can't stay on the topic, because HAL says something very idiot like: "Cats and Dogs has their own strengh".  This occour because HAL tends to skip from the TOPIC FILE and search on other BRN files. Indeed it would be very nice to Block these access. When HAL doesn't have the answer, let he make like we humans say:

- I DON'T KNOW
- COULD YOU TEACH ME ?

(And learn)
If we have dozens on information about Beethoven concentrated on a topic file, like the Psychology software just have, we will talk only about a single matter at time.

ONLY when we have just finished all possible conversation about a subject, then we could suggest change the subject.

Humans doesn't need to say normally: Let's change the subject, because we have 5 senses, and some phrases we speak, or gestures, just give an idea for the other person that we want no more talking about these subjects, but in the HAL's matter, I think it's important to have some specific sentences in order to make him change the subject. We can't assume we can build an intelligent software capable of detecting subject changes yet, if we can't make it remain on a single subject. first things first.

IMHO, it would be better make HAL talk about certain specific matters well, than trying to make him talk about everything without any sense.

That other software ELIZA just talk about psychology, but talks very good. If you try to talk about another subject, she try to convince user to remain only on what she knows: Psychology.

Indeed, ELIZA could be a single HAL topic: Psychology.

So, I think that if we could at first, make HAL chat well on a certain Topic, then we could teach him infinite topics.

It doesn't mean a thing having thousands of topics if we can't make a good conversation just about one of them.
So, let's try to invent something that prevent RANDOM comments, sentences, and most of all, remaining on a single Topic file (and a very FEW relate topics), until a second change subject.


IMHO,
Dihelson
 

dihelson

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
HELP NEEDED!
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2004, 01:47:41 am »
quote:
Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005

Hi Dihelson.
I have about a quarter of the script you are reffering too on the subject of Proper Noun gender is being done already.
I have much more to do and will be working on this script daily.
Here is a working but unfinished tid bit of the script you would



Hello, Jerry,

Vonsmith said:
"If you can theorize a general solution you will become rich and we Hal users will like you a lot. "

heheh, Perhaps Jerry will be THE ONE, since it seems he just can figure out how to solve it. As he said: HE SEES THE KEYS.
WOW! Jerry. I hope you get it! There's a whole community awaiting for this become true.
As you often say:
I Wish you Good new discoveries.

Dihelson Mendonça