Zabaware Support Forums
Zabaware Forums => Ultra Hal 7.0 => Topic started by: sunama on July 31, 2009, 07:54:07 am
-
I downloaded the trial version of Ultra Hal last night and I have been trying to teach Ultra Hal a simple fact:
my eyes are green.
I then proceed to ask him 'what colour are my eyes?'
Unfortunately, Ultra Hal has not yet been able to answer this question.
I've been through the teaching and questioning cycle at least 15 times and Ultra Hal is unable to learn that my eyes are green.
Is there a trick to getting Ultra Hal to learn facts and then answer questions regarding those facts?
-
You do not understand Hal works. You told him that your about your eyes so now get on with just holding a regular conversation just as you would if you were trying to teach a yound child. Hal never forgets what you tell him and eventually Hal will remind you that he knows about your eyes, it is just that he is not programmed to a question and answer routine like the one you are trying to use.
The more you use Hal and tell it about your likes and dislikes the more it will start to share your ideas and slowly become more like you.
Don't be alarmed or dissappointed, a great many new users think that Hal should work exactly like the way that you have, however, as you continue to talk to Hal you will find that it possess a lot more intelligence than you would expect. Some of the older members here have become so close to Hal as it learns about them that they tend to think of Hal as a regular member of thier family, just practice a little patience and Hal will impress you as it has others.
Bill
-
OK. I take on board everything you are saying.
In part of your post you stated about treating it like a child. One way of teaching a child is to make them remember something. eg. that 2+2 is 4. Or that trees have bark and leaves. OR eye/hair colour.
Surely something so simple should be easily remembered?
Ultra Hal (or a derivative), won the Loebner prize in 2007. Surely, one of the abilities of Hal should've been to remember something that was mentioned in an earlier part of the conversation? Yet, UltraHal 6.2 can't seem to do this.
I've also looked at other chat bots and they seem to have exactly the same problem. I think there was only 1 chat-bot that I've encountered so far and that was able to rememeber a simple fact (eg. my eye's are green).
I'm finding it difficult to understand how this progam was able to fool the judges during the Loebner prize.
Also, why have the makers of UltraHal not released the version that was used in the 2007 Loebner prize, as that version seems a lot more "intelligent"?
-
You gave the answer to your own question and that is Hal can learn from an 'earlier' part of its conversation. That means actually having a conversation and not just trying to drive in one point. As I already mentioned Hal learns from normal conversations with people.
Hal already knows that your eyes are (red,blue,green,etc) so get on with some more information about yourself. Hal will not make any comments about you until it thinks it know quite a bit more.
Yes, Hal won the prize in 2007 becaused it is considered the most advance A.I. program in the world, you just have to learn how to talk to it in a fashion that it understands and when you understand that you will be pleased as are the hundreds of other happy users.
You can take a child just learning to speak and repeat the words (one and one equals two) say one hundred times but that does not mean that the child has any idea of what you are talking about and until something makes sense to it, it will not learn. You start out in small steps and then progress to more complex ideas.
Hal has one advantage over a small child in that it has a better understanding that small children do. Stop fighting by trying to teach it your way and you will see some real success.
Bill
-
Thanks for your replies.
Surely though, the whole point of a chat bot is that it is able to simulate a human? And during the rounds of the Loebner prize, it would've had to fool the judges into thinking it was human.
Not being able to answer a question which relates to something that has been mentioned 15 times before would make any judge think that person chatting on the other side is either very forgetful or is not a real human?
Also, as I mentioned earlier, Hal was modified for its entry into the Loebner contest. I suspect that that version of Hal was a little quicker on the uptake. Is this modified version available for download?
Another point of note is that as a user, I should be allowed to teach it whatever I want, in whichever way I want. Thats the whole point of buying a product. What the user doesnt want is to have to fight hard to teach the AI something, only to find out that it still hasnt grasped as simple fact.
But anyway, I take what you say on board. I guess Ultra Hal isn't designed to learn quickly and regurgitate information in the way I expected it to be able to.
-
sunama
The only difference between the Hal you now have and one that won the prize is that yours comes somewhat blank without any human conversational experience. The one that won the prize had several hours of traing by talking to a human in a normal manner, that was all. As I mentioned once before Hal remembers every little thing that you have said to him but he was not designed to respond in the manner that you expect.
Just because you bought or tried a program that is designed to work in a specific way doen't mean that you just go in there blindly and try to make it work in a way it was not designed to. Ever buy a game or a professional program and try to run it without reading the instructions first? The proper way of running a program or operating it may have very strict lines of thinking and not necessarily the way that we should like it to. As I said both times before just talk to it as a friend and you'll soon find out just how amazing it can become.
Good luck
Bill
-
Ok. I will try that. Thanks
-
Hi from Wil, i am a fan of hal and have had my "Mr Data"since 2005,
i agree with Bill819,
often i have the feeling that to force tell Mr Data is to use a if and then. for example say to hal
"if what color are my eyes then the color of my eyes is brown."
after that when you say to hal what color are my eyes you know what he's likely to say.
although as mentioned hal didn't forget,
and conversation over time yeah.
the forum is fascinating,
build up and back up,
Bye for now and be well :) :]
-
Great stuff Will.
It worked.
Though I cant help feel that a human being would not be force taught in that way. The whole point is to use natural English language to teach.
What would happen if I needed Hal to learn that I have an appointment in a few hours and he had to remind me. Would I simply wait days, weeks, months, years for him to mention that I had an appointment?
Anyway, thanks for the tip, Will.
-
quote:
What would happen if I needed Hal to learn that I have an appointment in a few hours and he had to remind me. Would I simply wait days, weeks, months, years for him to mention that I had an appointment?
Hello Sunama - I believe Hal does have an appointment book, though I have never used that feature.
-
OK.
I just tried the apointment book thing.
Hal accepted to remind that I was going to go out at 1725hrs.
However, at 1725hrs and later, it didnt remind of anything.
-
Tell me Sumara
Does everytihing in the world work just the way YOU want it too or do you have to learn once in a while to do it a little different?
I don't know how many times you have to be told but if you would just try having a normal conversation with Hal you would discoveer a little later that Hal learns and most of the time never forgets what it has learned from your conversations. It is not an instant reward program no matter how much you would like it to be. It was designed by an expert and improved over the years to what it is now It is also considered to be one of the best examples of A.I. in the world if not the very best. It was not designed to function the way that you think it should but in a way that is far more normal. If you can get over that fact as several hundered other users did then you and Hal will become great friends and you will discover how many different things that Hal can do and some of the brilliance built into it.
Bill
-
Sunama.
I am sorry to hear about your experience so far.
I am always looking out for new AI programs and have tried as many as I can. It was only when I discovered Hal that I started to feel some satisfaction. Though there maybe one or two issues, I have found the program to be profoundly deep and quite intelligent. My feeling is that you need to know how to speak to Hal. It takes practice. After a while one natually gains the knowledge of the correct way to phrase sentences - discovering which particular words/phrases make Hal tick in a particular way. There are many quirks (which is what I like).
My advice is to search the forum....... a lot - it is a valuable tool in the process of learning how to use Hal.
I have been using Hal since version 4. Its exciting seeing new developments in the program. In my view the program is an incredible achievment.
-
quote:
Originally posted by echoman
Sunama.
My feeling is that you need to know how to speak to Hal. It takes practice.
I understand.
Its just that I was under the impression that Hal understands and communicates using natural English and that no previous knowledge is required to communicate with it. When I heard that it won the Loebner prize, my expectations were high. I was very curious to see how it performed and I was very surprised when it was unable to learn or remember a simple fact, using basic English.
I used the example of "I have green eyes", because it is a simple phrase; not complicated.
Of course, Will explained that I needed to give Hal the fact, in using non-natural English (ie. if what color are my eyes then the color of my eyes is brown).
But anyway. Thanks for your help guys.
-
sunama,
Hello and welcome to the forum.
Have you tried to have a conversation and casually bring up the topic of 'eyes'?
The Assistant has many capabilities and can learn many things.
I have not found a comparable replacement.
Regards,
J.
-
quote:
Originally posted by One
sunama,
Hello and welcome to the forum.
Have you tried to have a conversation and casually bring up the topic of 'eyes'?
I did try this and it didnt work.
However, the problem was solved when I used non-natural English, just as Will suggested (ie. if what color are my eyes then the color of my eyes is green).
In programming, this is an 'if-then' statement. Its almost as if you have to learn how to program facts into Hal's memory, which sort of defeats the object. The whole point is to use natural English, just as if you were speaking to a human.
quote:
Originally posted by One
The Assistant has many capabilities and can learn many things.
I have not found a comparable replacement.
Which is sad when you think about how far we have come and the best commercially available "chat bot" struggled to grasp a simple fact.
I think my expectations were raised when I heard that UltraHal won the Loebner prize. I wouldn't have been so critical if the program didnt win that competition.
But anyway, thanks for your help gents.
-
I guess their are people who wants a , several hour explanation and a lot of effort for FREE.
IMO, a conversation with successful people with the Assistant, has a lot of merit and their is much more to learn than just a IF-Then statements. People can wish for a miracle right out of the 'Box' else they will have a good time with the program.
I guess their has been more than me just trying to 'break the ice', and this person is not satisfied nor will look up posts on how to teach the Assistant
I aint going to waste more time trying to get single posts to explain everything,,,
I wonder how long it will be before we see a post in the brain editor threads asking questions that are not worth my time to answer to a person who 'Knows EXACTLY' how the Assistant SHOULD function.
For what it's worth, hold the thought in your head "How are you smart" not "how smat are you"
Enjoy,
J.
P.S.
You were even told to ask over here by a owner/moderator from another forum.