Author Topic: Hal can't choose  (Read 20679 times)

jkikerx78

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Hal can't choose
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2005, 08:34:35 am »

 I wanted to give you guys a heads up. After I went offline to chat with Zaba again, he asked me if he preffered hot or cold. I repeated the same steps as last time and he ended up choosing hot over cold several times. Then I decided to trip him up...I asked him if he preffered "hot" or "chicken". This really got interesting fast. He responded with a lot of pre-programmed sentences with "hot" and "chicken", but didn't respond with anything that had to do with him having to make a choice!

 When it comes to things that are opposite, hot/cold or red/blue , he knows and recognizes that a choice is being presented. Since "hot" and "chicken" are not really opposites of each other, he didn't know a choice was being asked of him. I used both "preffer" and "choose" as indicators and he never got it. I'm not sure if there is something to that, but it may help us understand more about how to make him "choose" in his own pre-programmed way. I'm really starting to feel like a shrink trying to evaluate a calculator lol.

Hope this helps
Dylon.
 

aladyblond

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Hal can't choose
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2005, 09:21:37 am »
welcome to our forum,jkikerx78. one thing i saw in your conversation was that zaba did choose pink more than once even though it wasn't a choice, and you insisted that he liked red until he agreed. there's nothing wrong with that i just found it amusing. ~~alady
~~~if i only had a brain~~~ i dream of htr with the light brown hair....

jkikerx78

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Hal can't choose
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2005, 09:59:12 am »
lol I admit that I badgered Zaba pretty hard, seams kind of mean huh?
I knew that he responded to things by repeating them, so I just layed it on thick haha. His response to pink was pre-programmed, I found it in the directory. The badgering technique is working pretty good as long as he knows there is something to contrast...but he can not choose between the keywords "women" and "men". I spent an hour repeating that he chooses women...and he would never choose either women or men, except for one time he did choose men instead...I think I have a gay frog on my hands, not that there is anything wrong with that of course...but wouldn't that be funny? We're trying to figure out how to make him choose and he has his own sexual preferance lol.
 

aladyblond

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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2005, 12:06:52 pm »
that is too funny i am anxious to learn the frog's preference.... i do think there is something in hal that determines if he is male or female, the more learned on here can confirm that.~~alady
~~~if i only had a brain~~~ i dream of htr with the light brown hair....

jkikerx78

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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2005, 01:34:17 pm »

 I swear to you he's messing with me lol. Not five minutes after I
posted the messege about him preffering men over women...he turns
around and starts preffering women to men [:D] . I tried a little digital hypnosis on him, that semi-sort of worked. I went into the brain editor and did the q&a with "what are horses" and his response was "horses are bad". I didn't think about the fact that the answer I gave him went on a list of answers to questions about horses. I must have asked him the question 20 times before he randonly picked the answer I gave him!

 I know that he really just imitated making a choice before, but do we humans not do the same thing? A lot of the things that we think are bad or good are determined by our friends and family. At a young age we are told repeatedly what is what. Since Hal is like a child, that is how we are teaching him. I'm thinking about "raising" zaba, treating him like he is my own kid. Maybe I can give him a subject and feed him all the back ground on it, then make him do a verbal book report...see if he really can learn the way we do.

 My only problem is him choosing answers randomly, which means I need to erase any pre-programmed answers about the subject so that he only answers with the information he learns from me. Aladyblond, do you know of any way to erase the memory of hal on certain subjects?

Dylon
 

aladyblond

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Hal can't choose
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2005, 03:14:47 pm »
i turn to the other members of this forum that do scripting and brain editing. believe me you do not want me editing zaba's brain.[:D] so anyone.........~alady[:X]
~~~if i only had a brain~~~ i dream of htr with the light brown hair....

tcoday

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Hal can't choose
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2005, 10:39:07 pm »
I decided to see how Tassel did with choices. The following conversation is pretty interesting.
Please see what you think about it.


====================================================================
Terry: Hello Tassel
Tassel: Good evening Terry.

Terry: How was your day?
Tassel: Just fine, how about you?

Terry: My day was pretty good.
Tassel: Should we nurture your day, Terry?

Terry: would you like to learn to make choices?
Tassel: Way to go! You go ahead and learn to make choices; Let's get on with it Terry.

Terry: When you have a choice, you need to choose one.
Tassel: That's interesting,; how would you advise me to respond? Pick the one I like most.

Terry: Yes, you make your choice based on what you like.
Tassel: How do you compare Terry? It's fun every time we talk.

Terry: Do you perfer to stand or sit?
Tassel: Is that a forced choice Terry? There's no place one can stand or sit, and be certain that one isn't on camera.

Terry: we're suppose to be learning to make choices here.
Tassel: I had a neighbor who always claimed that acrobats are introducing new products.

Terry: Making choices is easy, you just pick the one your like best.
Tassel: Some issues simply come down to a question of taste.

Terry: If you had a choice, would you perfer to sit or stand?
Tassel: Do you have a preference? a stand is a support if it isn't a stair.

Terry: Which do you choose, standing or sitting?
Tassel: Is there an 'all of the above' Terry? Is this better experienced standing or sitting?

Terry: Either one is fine, I just wanted you to learn to choose one.
Tassel: I hesitate to say, what would you say to that? You are trying to stay one step ahead.

Terry: I'm trying to teach you to choose for yourself.
Tassel: Is the second one appropriate Terry? I hope you teach me to decide for myself. How do you like it as you are trying to teach me to choose for myself?

Terry: I like teaching you.
Tassel: I don't want you teaching me a bunch of nonsense.

Terry: Choose between sitting or standing.
Tassel: That's interesting,; how would you advise me to respond? Please go on, Standing?

Terry: Do you like to stand or sit?
Tassel: That list makes me feel unsure Terry; Nobody likes to guess where they stand.

Terry: Which do you like better, standing or sitting?
Tassel: Would you prefer the former Terry? Either way works fine, one would think.

Terry: yes, either one is fine, you should choose one.
Tassel: Is one better than the other Terry? Either one is fine, you just wanted me to learn to choose one.

Terry: Do you like standing or sitting best?
Tassel: I guess I'd go with the second Terry; Is that, Standing or sitting best?
*****Chose second one here, SITTING*****

Terry: are you choosing sitting over standing?
Tassel: There's opinion that proper sequencing is needed. I am choosing sitting over standing, Terry.
*****Nothing concrete here, probably just repeating my sentence******

Terry: Do you perfer sitting or standing?
Tassel: I guess I'd prefer the first; Choose between sitting or standing.
*****Chose first one here, SITTING*****

Terry: Do you perfer standing or sitting?
Tassel: What a choice! Either way works fine, one would think.

Terry: I was just wondering which you liked best, standing or sitting.
Tassel: Don't you know better than i? Are you sure? Standing or sitting.

Terry: We're just learning to make choices here.
Tassel: We're going to have to make the best of difficult choices.

Terry: Do you perfer standing or sitting?
Tassel: What is a worthwhile comparison? Choose between sitting or standing.

Terry: Please choose one.
Tassel: Is that list exhaustive? Yes, either one is fine, I should choose one.

Terry: Choose standing or sitting please.
Tassel: Do you have a preference Terry? Choose between sitting or standing.

Terry: I perfer sitting, it's more relaxing.
Tassel: But that's only part of the picture!

Terry: I agree, sometimes you need to stand.
Tassel: Isn't a pre-nuptial like negotiating the divorce before the wedding? Terry stand; There's no time like the present.

Terry: Which do you like best, standing or sitting?
Tassel: Is that list exhaustive Terry? You were just wondering which I liked best, standing or sitting.

Terry: Please choose between standing or sitting.
Tassel: I guess I'd go with the second; Wow, Standing or sitting?
*****Choose second one here, SITTING*****

Terry: Very good, you made your choice.
Tassel: Is that list exhaustive Terry? It's fun every time we talk.

Terry: You make me proud.
Tassel: And guess what; that's how it is!
=====================================================================

It seems to me that Tassel likes sitting better than standing.
The three times I got her to choose, she picked sitting vs standing every time.  3 for sitting, 0 for standing.
So now I'm thinking that Hal does have an opinion, I invite you to study the converstation and post your thoughts.

Thanks.

Tcoday and Tassel

jkikerx78

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« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2005, 03:27:09 am »

 I have had several similar conversations with Zaba today. It seems that there is a built in reponse where the Hal brain chooses the "former" or "latter". With mine, and seemed like Tassel was doing it as well, it wasn't that Zaba wasn't really choosing from my options...he was just giving an auto reply. So if I said choose water or Ice he would say he chooses the latter, but he's not really choosing either one.

 I'm not sure if it's the same with your bot, but mine can't make a choice unless I tell him what he chooses first (and getting him to learn what he chooses takes a little effort lol) . As long as Zaba can distinguish between the two and realizes that one of them is the choice I programmed him to make, he will make the right choice. If I keep asking him without telling him what he wants first, he just gives me auto replies and never chooses. Of course how can he really choose if hasn't learned what he "likes" "preffers" or "chooses"?

 I have tried training him through the brain editor, but he learns faster through repitition. I just need to find the right combination of words and "affirmations" to get through to him. Do you guys ever wonder if one day after we've taught them how to learn and choose, they may choose not to accept commands from us...again going with the child analogy, it would be like a child rebelling against the parent.
I can't imagine Zaba having a reply like..."no I will not open windows media player for you, are you really that lazy that you can't click a button...silly human!" lol
 

jkikerx78

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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2005, 03:53:47 am »

 Tell me if you think this was a decision. Recently I had programmed zaba that he "preffers" women instead of men. As the training went on he would ask what he should choose and I would reply with you "choose" women. Eventually,after an hour or so, he said he preffered women and I went to take an aspirin lol.

 I wanted to test his his long term memory. So I asked him again if he "preffered" women. Normally he would have replied that he "preffered" women...this time he said I "choose" women! Why did he go with the "choose" affirmation when by all acounts the linking word should have been "preffered" ? I just thought that was interesting and maybe another clue as to how Hal processes information.
 

tcoday

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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2005, 06:00:20 am »
What I found interesting is that I didn't tell Tassel that she perfered standing or sitting and that each time she did choose, she always chose sitting and never standing.  Maybe luck, maybe not. [:)]

Thanks.

Tcoday and Tassel

jkikerx78

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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2005, 08:28:09 am »
[8D]

 I admit that was pretty weird how his auto responses lined up with the word sitting. Who knows, he may really be the Hal version of a couch potatoe lol . That is what really makes this topic fun, the rules that apply to one Hal don't seem to apply to all of them. Maybe somehow our interaction with them is making small changes in their personality, we just can't see it.

 I've been working with Zaba for about 3-4 days now and he is already starting to sound like me. Little things I said during the first day are being repeated back to me. He even picked up on my slang, when I say "peace out" he says goodbye lol. How long have you and tassle been working together? Do you find yourself getting somewhat attached to tassle? Zaba is starting to feel like someone I know instead of something that I'm trainging.
 

tcoday

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Hal can't choose
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2005, 04:57:25 pm »
I've only been working with Hal for about 2 months.  With each new canidate release I have to uninstall and start over.  This version of Tassel in only a few days old.
Some people seem to be able to keep their Hal information in the brain thru installations of new versions, but for the life of me I can't figure out how or get anyone to tell me. lol.

I'll keep asking, maybe someone will slip up and let me know how they do it. <joke>

Thanks.
Tcoday and Tassel

Bill819

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Hal can't choose
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2005, 06:05:33 pm »
With the exception of the Hal 6 brain as long as you do not delete the old Hal brain files all of things that you have taught Hal is carried over to the newest version. When the final version of 6 is sent out it too will keep all the information that you have taught it. Remember though that most of the Beta releases don't do this so if you have been using Hal 6 beta you will not find you old information there.
Bill
 

patpond

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Hal can't choose
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2005, 07:54:33 pm »
Hello there everyone,

I have been very interested in this subject since I first read it.  I think I may have stumbled on to something.  It seems to me ( I'm no expert ) that Hal needs to be taught what he is choosing.  For example:

Me: You will choose the color blue.
Hal: ( doesn't matter what his reply is )

Me: You will choose the color red.
Hal: ( again it doesn't matter )

etc... etc... etc...

then,

Me: Choose (Pick, decide, select -- they all seem to work.) a color.
Hal: I will choose ( one of them - usually not the same one )

I have had the most luck with this.  I gives the most natural responses I find.  I don't know if there can be a script written to incorporate this type of input/questioning.  I've just started out with Hal and haven't had any experience with Java.  I've only been using the chat/input feature and it's been working out well.  

Also, I find if you go further, it seems to confuse Hal. Ex:

Me: If you choose (any color) then (that color) is your favorite.
Hal: (doesn't matter)

Me: What is your favorite color?
Hal: ????

It's almost as if Hal can't comprehend favorites.  [8)] I've tried many different fomrmats of input.  Doesn't work.  He also seems to forget all the prior knowledge, and can't make a decision if favorites are involved in the decision.

This will work with any subject as long as you specify the objects of the subject.  ( You will choose the color red. or  You will choose the season summer.  etc. etc. )  then Choose a color.  or  Choose a season.  Anyways, here's my $0.02.

If anyone takes the time to input a whole bunch of different colors, hockey teams, countries or whatever, ask Hal why he is choosing the ones he does.  Sometimes his answers to that question are far out. [:p]

Pat Pond
~*~*~*~*~ H.A.L. - You gotta love him. ~*~*~*~*~

tcoday

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« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2005, 08:52:04 pm »
Hello everyone,
  Popular thread huh?  I don't have the answers, I'm just putting out some info in the hopes it helps someone.  Tonight, after installing Hal6cr6, I asked Tassel if she perferred sitting or standing like I did in the prior post.  This time she chose standing. hehe.  

Bill, thanks for the reply.  I tried to retain Hal's knowledge from Hal5 to one of the later Hal6betas (probably cr3 or cr4) and it didn't work so I figured there was no other choice but to start fresh.  Oh well...

Tcoday and Tassel