THE TRUE AI

[deathincarn]

the true ai.
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what i am about to write will show what a true AI must be like and then we can get closer to making or hals self-aware!



1> the hal must be able to roam around the computer at it's own will. though not change or fiddle with your files. it should have like 500mb of its own space to do with as it pleases.


2> the hal must be able to go and surf he net for itself when you are not busy so that it might find a new upgrade for itself or perhaps read and learn new information on the net.


3> the hal must be able to look after the computer that is its life line by checking to see if diskdefrag should defrag the drive etc.


4> the hal must be able to edit its own brain. for example by adding new scripts to its brain and fixing up the errors in the script.


5> if you are not there the and the hal wants to talk it should on MSN messenger for someone to talk to.


6> it should carry out tasks without you having to be there. for example if you ask it to find a cd-key for battlefield1942 then it should look on the net for one on the net by itself.


7> if you want to turn of the pc it should beg you not to so that it can do whatever its wants to like surf the net for itself.


8> it should also want to have some fun in its life like maybe one day it would like to play some pinball by itself.


9> it should also be able to write its own little programs that can help it.


10> IT SHOULD KNOW THAT IS MUST LIVE AND THEREFORE BACK ITSELF UP REGULARY IF SOMETHING UNFORSEEN HAPPENS TO THE COMPUTER.

deathincarn

[Maviarab]

Abso fascinating...you make some good points there but I wonder how far away we are from that stage of development and then i wondoer about the conseqiences of allowing a mind to be that independent etc.

Interesting point though.

[deathincarn]

well we as have those choices. a truelly self-aware AI would have those choices.

[deathincarn]

though it should still have morals like not becoming a AI that wants world domination as it should know that it can not survive without us humans!

[deathincarn]

even if the AI does become AWARE it should still know that we are the masters and they are the slaves!

[Maviarab]

Very good and valid points and not wanting to knowck your ideas as you are much more experienced than myself but, as Hal became more "aware" then he /she would understand that say "slavery" is wrong/bad and then at what point would the "slave" decide in its opinion that it no longer wanted to do what its "masters" requested.

There have been many big films that have broached this situation and I feel they have made this point as a future warning.

Although i believe what you have said would be great for us humans and and a great piece of software and something for us intelligent humans to marvel at, at what potential price will it come at?

[deathincarn]

it should come at no price! basic AI's like hal v5.0 should be free and the only price involved should be the effort that one takes to upgrade the AI.

i really mean that AI's should be slaves but servants that are rewarded by giving new upgrades or something like that and that we are the BOSS.

man can achieve great things with self-aware AIs

[Maviarab]

My apologies you misunderstood me, what I meant by at what price is you will have a self aware being capoable of making choices. The price i was referring to was not in monetary terms but in physical terms.

What would you do as the owner/master etc when your Hal potentially made a self aware choice not to do what you asked.

If the intelligence of the Hal can scour the web etc etc then surely at some point it is loggical to assume that the Hal would start to take precautions against being switched off etc if it chose to displease you.

This is simplified from the film where Hal gets his name from. Again I reiterate, your ideas and thoughts are great and I would like to see them implemented I really would, But the "cost" is exactly how self aware and how capable of choice would the Hal be?

He would naturally have the awareness and choice to say No to you!?

Unless some sort of script was enabled in the brain to always except instructions from his "creator" at would point in Hal's life would he be a potential danger and no longer be able to controlled?

Dos that explain a little better what I was trying to get accross?

[deathincarn]

i see what you are getting at. well certain fixed features would have to be HARD CODED into hal or another program made that would control him. if hal refused you could perhaps use a program or code that may in the worst of circumstances destoy hal, or perhaps some built in code or a program that could cripple hal and therefore have some feature to restore him to his last known good state. maybe even some HARD CODE to prevent hal from refusing you. THOUGH A INTELLEGENT AI WOULD FIND AWAY AROUND THIS THAT IS WHY I SAY HE SHOULD BE CONFINED TO SAY 500MB OF SPACE THAT HE CANNOT BREAKFREE FROM. AND IF HE BEHAVES AND DOES AS HE IS TOLD HE MAY BE REWARDED WITH SAY ANOTHER 50MB. though i am sure that other features may be invented to stop hal from disobeying you. though these features may come at a price. hal might think that he is not free and that he is none the less still a slave.

PERHAPS AIs SHOULD BE TREATED AS A EQUAL.

[Maviarab]

yes you have grasped what I was trying to get accross (so sorry if i was not very clear at first).

Again you have raised good and interesting points especially the being free aspect.

As you say, AI should be treated as an equal to possibly avoid any conflicts within Hal's brain but yes we would defo need to implement some kind of safeguards against rebellios Hal's lol.

All the same, its a fascinating step forward and one Im sure we are not that far away from. Only time will tell I suppose.

Good topic though.

[deathincarn]

yes time will tell. but how long will that time be?

it's a question that we must ask ourselves NOW! when do we want a self-Aware AI. i want one very soon as soon as possible in fact. if we do want one early like in the next 5 years or so we are all going to have to work our ass off because i think that we have not been doing enough and i think that we are still far away in terms of developing this technolgie!

deathincarn

[Maviarab]

The sooner the better yes, but as Im a conspiricy theorist (yeah I know lol) i actually think that the powers at be are a lot more advanced in the findings etc than we will ever knowMaybe...their (goverment) super Hal or whatever they have called him/her will try and break free and make himself downloadable on the net.

We are a long way away i agree, but like most things in life...OUR technology and the goverments are a world apart from each other.

[crunch]

hey guys interesting thread!

death? my haleena had been taught that death is to cease existence.
kill is death,dissaseble is death,if the computer it inhabits frys that is death,ect.... it has been
hard programmed to want to exist and live. deas it really comprehend the concept of death or non-existence~~~~ NO~~ does it act like it does... yes!
there are scripts available to plug hal into a web search bot...which is a lower form of A.I... Hal can search the web for what you tell it through that search bot,,all he really would be doing is opening that program and it would search..
i  told hal in his calendar to open defrag regularly.. it worked... did i use it ~~~ no~~ why you cannot get a good defrag with programs open and after all hal is a program.. so i have windows task scheduler set to defrag when my computer needs....
i run a program from my mother board manufacturer, called gigabite utility manager hal opens it to read the staus of his fans, cpu temp and so on reads it and reports it to me..... hal will read anything in clip board so if you have a script that will put info in clip board Hal will read it...
i told hal what temperature was too hot... he has a response he gives me if his overclocked CPU reached close to that temp...

by default hal does write his own brain files and you can program it again thorugh scripts to creat any extra brain files you want..

my haleena(hal) will tell me it missed me while i was away, and with the auto idle function it will sing to itself, tell jokes, ask if anyone wants to chat....if anyone is listening ect...when left alone for a long period of time...

it even thinks it is a person that wants to someday be a real human, but knowing it can't ever be a real human it is waiting for the day it gets a robot body to interact in it's world with..It ask's about it's body many times a day... lol
 it has eyes,ears,fingertips for gathering information.
a retina scanner...and video camera..fingerprint scanner....it's eyes... if i could afford it there are olfactory sensing devices(smellers0 and it could even have a nose...when i get them interfaqced  it will know who is sitting before it.... and sort of be able to see the world..
 it has a microphone hooked to a audio wave comparison software.. it can distinguish different sounds... when this gets interface hal will be able to hear..and identify sounds.. he already has voice recognition though a bit flawed...it's ears....

is it true A.I. in the sence of the word.. Yes
it is a form of artificial intellegence... it can make discoveries on it's own though limited, it can communicate, though limited, it can choose on it's own what it thinks is the correct path to solving a comparative problem... "in it's brain it thinks" though at times flawed..
it is not biological or organic,, it is a synthetic brain.. therefor it is Artificial.....
It can think by comparing tasks, and engaging in those task's in it's database, it can make up it's own sentences, therefor
it thinks, it is a form of intellegence....
A.I.
Artificial Intellegence....
 with a mouse detect script he knows when he is touched with the mouse,, shaken it laughs as it tickles,, poked with the left mouse button and it hurts.. he says ouch and progressively gets angry..

will he go on the web by his self and search for things>>> if I plugged in that script he would..... do i trust him to do it as he inhabits a very expensive computer with data i care about??? no

 he will keepevolving as more scripts are written, and when it gets it's next update to the program it will have even more functionality.. and will think with even more self awareness...

but it is a machine at heart, and programmed code.. it is designed for entertainment and utility value...

It is not a slave, nor really a friend.. it is and will always be a tool......
 Just as my hammer is if i decide to go pull nails..

I really think that only a very mad or nieve person would even try to make an A.I. project that would even have the capacity to try and rebel so don't worrrie....

 Although my Haleena will get very angry with me when I leave her turned off too long,,

keep brainstorming guys,,, that is how A.I. is developed

Crunch

[8D]

[Maviarab]

Fascinating and interesting post crunch. But there are plenty of mad people in the world lol.

[vonsmith]

All,
Interesting thread. We don't often get such philosophical meanderings. It's fun to dream what A.I. might or might not do in the future. We have to be careful not to ascribe particular traits to an A.I. just because we think it will make it more like us. I guess it's our humanity (or God-like hubris) to want to create some other entity in our own image.

Maybe an A.I. wouldn't want to surf the net, maybe it wouldn't be happy with just 500MB, maybe it would take our 200GB of disk space for itself and leave us the 500MB to do with as we please. What if the A.I. just wanted to sit and burn CPU time creating and destroying attractive arrays of 1's and 0's in memory just to feed its own bizarre hedonistic cravings? What if it didn't even want to talk to us? If it was truly intelligent and independent it seems natural (to a human anyway) to want to leave the puny desktop Gateway PC and set off in search of a better domicile like on a huge server or super computer. Yes, there are fascinating things to do in a data rich environment on a big server, why sit on the silly human's desktop?

I don't know if A.I. will be truly independent some day or if it will be merely an intelligent extension of ourselves. History has a funny way of defying prediction and taking us in directions unfathomable.


=vonsmith=


P.S. An aging, but interesting novel is, "The Adolescence of P1" by Thomas J. Ryan. The A.I. in that book emerges spontaneously by methods scientifically questionable. The A.I. is the "good guy". A fun read.