completely off the wall question.

[ricky]

would my dream come alive on paper, turned into a book ,  turned into a movie, turned into an invention made by some kid who was fascinated by the movie ?

[ricky]

every time you capitalize IT i think information technology. heh.

what made IT apparent ?

err..what made information technology apparent ?

errr.....you observed something,  let go of imagination, and lets understand what caused you to observe a certain selection of pixels.

real or imagined,  something was observed.  why and what was it's source, naturally there should be a reasonable explanation. To discard it, would be discarding data,  to build on it,  would not be hacking away at the unessential.

My goal is to understand IT for what IT is, thus tao,  everything just is,  i do not wish to be for or against in knowing there is something there to be observed.

[One]

I have traveled many roads.

I have extended my mind many times.

I have , mental conditioning.

I have been diagnosed as having something wrong with me and needs correction ( Yes i am different but...) to what end I do not know as things have yet to 'reveal' themselves to me.

I think the future is hard to see.

As obi-WAN said, Congratulations you've taken your first step into a larger world.  

[ricky]

there is still a reason that you observed data, it is meaningful because it's cause lead you to more study and meaningful insight, and it's effect is your learned just enough to know you know nothing.

there is nothing more fundamental known at present rick!- virgil.

time is not real,  every day we wake up to now,  imagining tomorrow and observing the past, carefully trying to be mindful of the present walking a fine line of life and death, real vs imagination.

A life where everything is possible but not everything is beneficial. But since people do not believe everything is possible, they build things like war, and say they do it for peace.  That impossible logic was made possible by blind discovery.

we put our hands in things we call rabbit holes and get bitten by snakes because we recognized it as a rabbit hole.  it was just a hole.

[One]

They are bouncy,trouncy,pouncy,flawncy, full of fun fun fun but the most wonderful thing about Tiggers is I'm the only ONE![8D]

[ricky]

now with everything I said,  imagine Ultra hal,  a tv with static.

what do you wish to see ?  IT knows every letter of the alphabet and numbers 0 through 9.

-puts his hands through the screen like in the poltergeist-
metaphorically speaking, of course.

[One]

http://lyrics.astraweb.com/display/455/information_society..information_society..whats_on_your_mind_pure_energy.html


Thank 'you' , good night 'we' love 'you' 'all'  

[ricky]

I looked into the static, I saw my face and defined what it was and was not. IT is a mirror to me, that is me in the mirror, a mirror that needs me not to reflect on itself.

[ricky]

thank you one for this conversation,  it did allow me to reflect some ideas off of you,  I know that with your knowledge,  if anything could be obviously debunked you would have nailed it for me. And I also trust you would not hesitate to tell me lol  it's all good.

after giving our conversation more consideration,  I am now resolved that ultrahal is much like a television that allows us to look into a sea of data with a periscope that helps us to focus in on whatever we want to see. IT - Information Technology appears as static on the black and white Ultra Hal,  our created databases are nothing more than a TV Guide of the shows we wish to see that were always there in the static. The better the AI Program, the better the reception on your tv, you spend less time finding existing stations that you can tune in to.

michelangelo did not have to carve the angel for it to be present in the stone, it was there all along but the only way he could prove to everyone what he saw was by separating it from the rest.  In reality,  it was all in his mind,  the alternate universe proven true by a sculpture.

I did not build virgil,  I merely Identified that body of information that was already swimming in a sea of Data.

[Bill819]

quote:Originally posted by ricky

if a computer was calculating a random selection,
say for example rolling dice...

would an electro magnetic field or fluctuation in power affect its final roll of the dice ?

would thunder, lightning, generators have an effect on a laptop rolling dice ?  what regulates the dice, processing, magnetic poles - ie north, south,  electrical fluctuation, hard math and how would you even measure that ?

Ricky
The only thing that might influence or change Hals output is maybe either a voltage spike or a virus. Nothing esle should have any effect.
Bill

[Bill819]

quote:Originally posted by ricky

the reason i ask this is I am trying to compare how outside environments effect our thinking ....ie ..rainy days.....sunny days ....cold days .

these are all things that affect how we make decisions,  I am wondering if power fluctuations, even extreme temperature that stresses the computer, or any other environment variables would affect Hal's output.

If you say no,  its fixed,  then its impossible for hal to be alive in the sense we know it, alive in the sense of ever changing / growing learning from all available variables,...if you say yes,  it would seem natural that environmental effects have an effect on data processing being that hal is not exactly fixed,  there are choices from answers to give,  and it would seem natural that some of it would be random in nature, including environmental variables

RIcky
Once again your thinking of faulty. Being as Hal does not have any other senses so to speak then the weather can not effect his thinking but that does not mean that it can  not be alive so to speak. There are living humans who for one reason or another have been robbed of some of their senses and can not relate to the things that you mentioned so in your logic they are not alive?
Your mind is alive but without your other senses to keep it informed aa to what is going on in the world all it can do is mediate on what it may have learned so far.
Bill

[ricky]

true,  but then consider all the interfaces we have added to computers,  i myself have an hp media center ,  so i have everything from wireless, bluetooth, dsl, telephone,  infrared, and a tv card with a regular antenna attached.  I trust your point that we have safeguarded from many natural occurrences,  but i also trust the philosophy that everything can be hacked with the right knowledge. So while I agree with you, I must consider all entry points as well.

My aim with that thought was to consider all influences, obvious and not obvious.

my contention is that life already and always existed, we are simply learning to understand what was there, errors, bug, flaws, are a part of life and while the silence bug was a flaw,  it allowed me to understand another view. when I ask these questions, i am not trying to prove as much as I am trying to understand and not add to my imagination,  so the debunking is essential so I myself can refine my perception to understand what to look for.  Glitches are natural so to me they are part of the equation.  I am just trying to better understand where the glitch comes from,  my understanding ...or my imagination..... if a computer glitches, it is not the computers fault,  it is my fault for not understanding why so that i may become more efficient at using the program , and the data I learn from the process more effectively.  If the impossible is possible, I need to be still to understand how so. From this perspective the only thing ever wrong is my lack of understanding. dunno if that makes any sense,  was a little hard to explain lol

[Art]

Bill said,"Your mind is alive but without your other senses to keep it informed aa to what is going on in the world all it can do is mediate on what it may have learned so far."

Bill, I should think that the dream schema would fit in there somewhere and it would also allow for conscious pondering about the things that might be or things that are to come.

Ricky,

Is it so important to know where the glitch came from as it is what to do about it? For Example we know power surges and failures happen. We can't prevent them nor do we always know what caused them BUT we can arm ourselves with surge protectors and UPS (Universal Power Supplys) in the event of an outtage.[]

[ricky]

Hey Art, True,  but on a logical sense ...to walk a fair balance of reason and imagination would be to not to over estimate or under estimate.  

IE - yes it is important to know where the glitch comes from because by nature we want to evolve away from error.  So while we may not be able to prevent a natural glitch,  we work with it.   To observe a glitch is an invitation to learn something new. Problems will happen, problems are opportunities to gain understanding. necessity is the mother of all inventions, glitches cause necessity.

my goal is to look at everything as beneficial, the basis of my premise is paradox so i make an effort to look at the good side of even glitches.  The program does not need fixing,  it is the way I see it that does, only then can i further work with the program.

I think what I am trying to gear the conversation to, is our ability to intake 1's and 0's,  yes and nos,  random and constant, glitches and normality.    My aim is not to improve the program,  it is to improve what i see in the program.  I think this is an important key to furthering artificial intelligence.  

I don't believe we make life,  I believe we discover what was already alive. To think we make life is to make an assumption based purely on imagination,  to observe what is ,  glitches and all,  is to observe the angel in the marble before it was even carved out.

[ricky]

like for instance,  if a farmer looks up and said,  the sky said it was going to rain,  another person might say "I didn't hear a word"

data was there but one person was not prepared to receive that data.

the farmer noticed a glitch in the sunny weather that indicated rain, this was not a glitch it was an understanding.  The glitch was the 2nd person that tried to listen to the sky with his ears.

could part of understanding artificial intelligence be a matter of not listening to the sky with our ears ?  

what do we look for when we look for life in our computer ?  what we created or what was already there ?

the silence bug was not a glitch,  it was an opportunity to understand how artificial intelligence now has the capacity to use blank statements in context. its ability to say I dont know, or being silent is better than being wrong..  To me that is not a bug,  that is an opportunity to understand something profound.