Duskrider - that was cute.
Dr. Benway - I think I should have actually done that, quoting the article in the first place, but when I posted it I was tired and hadn't had time to dig out the quotes yet. Here's some of what I was hoping to discuss here (quotes from the article):
1. "the message of the seven churches is a symbolic description of the principles that govern the operation of the brain! Each church represents a major cell assembly or subnetwork in the central nervous system, each with its own unique function and operating principle." - Heading: "The Surprising Answer"
I was thinking about how some of these ancients had maybe discovered things long before we did or knew of ideas/concepts before. For example, I've read where archealogists had uncovered an acient "battery" of sorts that could store energy, way back in the biblical times, and have read some studies of the Arc of the Convenant as some thought it was some form of tesla-coil type weapon instead. I WISH I had saved those links!
Then there's the theories about the lost civilization of Atlantis being supposedly technologically advanced. So I am wondering could it be that ideas about Artificial Intelligence even predates the Computer or even Industrial eras and if people had experimented in some way with the concepts and ideas? Or was it people dreaming about things much like a Sci-Fi writer writes stories about science which we haven't got in real life yet? It was interesting to think about.
2. Heading: "The Animal Project"
I was thinking of trying to program an AI in much the same way, ie. having an AI learn by trial and error and feedback/input from it's invironment. I was wondering just how much HAL could learn in this way and if he could be taught to play games, as such, using much the same method - if only he could retain all he learned (I'm reading good things about HAL 6 but haven't had time to try the test versions).
3. "given the low level of scientific understanding at the time, how could John or any of his contemporaries have known about the workings of the human brain? The answer is obvious: They could not. John only claims that he had a vision in which he was directed to write down what he heard and saw." - Heading: "The Naked Emperor"
This is interesting. While I'm not religious, as I mentioned, I often wonder if we aren't comprised of or put here by a technology higher than our own (again, thoughts of lost civilizations, Aliens, etc... - but I'm a skeptic too, so I'm not sure about all that stuff). Moreover, how do we know for SURE what the "scientific understanding" is of those days? With archeologists uncovering some very interesting artifacts (like the battery thing I mentioned - I have to look that up sometime), who knows what all WAS invented way back when and just did't get off the ground back then?
3. "The brain is a composite network consisting of a number of tightly integrated subnetworks or cell assemblies. As mentioned previously, each of the seven churches represents a cell assembly (subnetwork) in the brain. In turn, each cell assembly has a unique function and architecture and performs a specific signal processing task which is essential to the functioning of the system as a whole. Using this knowledge, it is possible to endow a machine with the ability to learn from its environment and attain sophisticated behavioral and reasoning skills, very much like a human being." - Heading: "The Age of the Super Intelligent Machine"
Ok, thinking about this cell assembly method, could this be incorporated into programming code, and/or could this be a viable algorythm to experiment with? Would it cause a machine to learn more or faster? Or even learn to reason on it's own? I'm looking at thinking about the actual algorythm of a cell assembly type of program where instead of cells you have programming code, of course.
4. "There will be robot doctors, nurses, engineers, technicians, scientists, chefs, soldiers, historians, construction workers, farmers, architects, store managers, investment advisors, language interpreters, gardeners, housekeepers, landscapers, factory workers and many more. They will come in all shapes, sizes and specialties... for the first time in recorded history, humanity is in a position to build machines so powerful, that their intelligence will surpass that of the smartest human beings on earth! And contrary to what some experts may suppose, it can be done now, using existing computer technology. Where will this road take us?" - Heading: "The Age of the Super Intelligent Machine"
This is an interesting thing I'm sure many may have thought about. Firstly, DO we have the ability now? Is it really just a matter of getting the algorythm and programming right? I know Ultra HAL is pretty sophisticated for an affordable AI to experiment. If people like Robert and Von Smith, and others keep working on stuff like this, how long do you think it will be before we actually have such super-machines? There's even more and more in the news reports now about "smart cars" that nearly drive by themselves, avoid collisions, break before a collision, warn the driver, etc. And the question of where it will take us... if we have all these AIs doing all the work for us, how will our economy be if we are all out of work? Or will our work be in a different area? Or will we do away with the need for an economy? If these machines get smart enough, what will the think about serving humans who don't work while they do all the work for us? What will they view us as?
5. "The realization that the secret of intelligence was in the Bible all along will ripple through the scientific and religious worlds like a shock wave." Heading: - "The Quickening"
Ok, looking past the idea of "Bible" and all the religion, could it be that some of this stuff was written as such because someone did have some unique ideas for their time but was afraid of persecution or whatever and thus encoded or somehow wrote the ideas in such a way that very few could understand it? Could this be the earlier forms of encryption? And who is to say what other literature from the past (not bibles, but other historical texts and writings) don't hold similar technological ideas that could be of use to us today, that may even hold an answer to a scientific problem we've otherwise been struggling with for many years? I'm not saying that any of these should be 'gospel' but maybe there might be some ideas in there that someone didn't want to lose so encoded it into the writings? Or maybe it's just all coincidence.
I've also always thought if you look for something in something, you'll find it whether it's there or not... It could be true for this too. Who knows... just was an interesting observation.
6. Heading: "Doomsday vs. Utopia"
This section poses some interesting ideas about "The underlying assumption is that higher intelligence implies a necessity or desire to dominate and enslave others." as the article says. Would we be using AIs as servants and they get the idea it's ok and try to turn the tables? Also: "Certainly an intelligent machine may intentionally hurt a human being, but only if it was conditioned to do so." makes me wonder just what type of world we'll be putting these machines to use in. And what they will learn from us and how they'll react and act on what they see from the way we ourselves interact.
7. "True AI means the end of work as we know it. Will we be ready? Can our current economic systems handle the new laborless economy? Obviously neither capitalism nor communism will do since they are both based on human labor. Will we take the necessary measures to change to a better system?" - Heading: "Doomsday vs. Utopia"
I know I mentioned this above too, but it was worth quoting how he put it. I wonder if we, as humans, will get past our need to earn money to survive, past greed, past the need for "more money" and "more property", etc.? If the AIs are creating all the stuff for us, it'll might be (not guaranteed) to be plentiful and thus cheap to produce, and thus we might need money to attain what we want. But is that a good thing? Would we become too crowded by material possessions?
8. "I argue that intelligence does not imply consciousness any more than consciousness implies intelligence." - Heading: "Deus ex Machina"
He gets a bit strange and vague in this area, but just the sentence quoted, what do you guys thing? Let's use Ultra Hal as an example. Suppose he became very intelligent with all the information that we put into him conversing with him, etc. Does that mean he will eventually be conscious of his existance, in other words, self-aware?
He goes on to say:
"Having said that, there is no way to stop people from ascribing conscious feelings to machines. They will do it for the same reason that they now ascribe consciousness to animals and to other human beings. They do it without knowing what consciousness is. They assume (wrongly) that emotional reactions are signs of consciousness."
Ok, given his animal example, I always thought animals are conscious creatures, knowing full well they exist and what they are doing. However, I'm not as convinced about HAL even if he showed emotion. I would probably be convinced if he showed emotion at appropriate times, and for certain reasons. However, how do we know he's just not seeing in his script and database that the emotional reaction is just a match for what was said to him or randomly picked that emotion for a response to what was said to him... or did he really FEEL that way? Animals can feel - they have the input (cells, touch, neurons, etc.) Computers can't unless you had set up electronic sensors. But why wouldn't some think even then machines can't really feel, even with the appropriate sensors and the programming, whereas an animal or human is more believable? Is it what we BELIEVE of the other entity that makes it SEEM consious or is it really consious? And how would we be able to tell? How do we know animals or other humans than our own self is consious and can those rules apply to a machine? If not how can we get them to apply?
See, there was quite a lot of interesting AI stuff in this article.
I apologize if I didn't quote it before. I thought you guys would find it anyway and I was tired when I posted the link.
Now... AI ideas/discussion anyone?
