Schema of conception

[rockershaft]

Bill,
as soon as you conceive yourself you can respond to your own questions about how to do it, because you seek the sound of silence and you will find it in your truth. It is in the sound of your silence.

The truth about your ignorance is vacuous truth, thus in error.

[markofkane]

quote:Originally posted by Bill DeWitt

quote:Originally posted by markofkane
But, please don't be so quick to judge

I judge at a rate I consider valuable. I certainly will not use your standards to do my judging.

But what makes you think I am judging anyone? I am pointing out that any and all behavior reveals "who you really are" to some degree. If you think that means I have pegged you as unintelligent, then that is certainly a harsh, unwarranted judgement of me.

I never said anyone was unintelligent in any of my posts. Just so you know, I have poor math skills, but I am not unintelligent. The difference is that I try to improve my math skills, while many on the internet seek to excuse poor communication skills. Shame on them!

I reread your post, and somehow, the words have a different meaning the second time around.

The first time around, I took as a put-down. But I reread it, and it did not sound like a personal attack on me.

Look, I belong to many forums, and some forums have teens and 20 somethings. They (a lot of them) don't respect good grammer, but use leet speak, and shorthand talk (thanks to new technology, like Instant messaging) that makes them come to forums and use

"Hey! wats up?? I am going 2 see U soon!!"

If you criticize them, they will use an expletive against you. Or in forums where cursing is not allowed, personal attacks.

I do appreciate proper grammar, however I found it to be futile to demand perfect grammar from everyone.
I am not really defending bad grammar, I am defending the right of people to do as they please, as long as they are not hurting anyone.

 I am a more tolerant person, and I cannot help that.

You have the right to be what you want to be, also.[8D]

[jackgephart]

I looked into this subject a little bit myself, and I am going to say one thing. Bill, you are right in your thinking, but markofkane is right also. The book that I chose to look this info up in was the Bible. I found that in the gospels, Jesus helped his apostles to be all that they could be in all that they did. But they still had fun doing it. He was very patient and loving in His manner of teaching, and that is sometimes where the world today goes wrong. Learning can and must be fun for us to be interested in it. Bill you said that math was a problem for you. You most likely didn't like it as a youth. That was the same for me and spelling, reading and just english in general. But now because I am going my own pace it is more fun. Just one more Bible comment, God is the happy God so we must be happy doing something or it isn't going to mean as much. So telling someone that they should be something that they don't want to be is just spitting in the wind.

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by markofkane

What would you rather be:

High in class, but low in fun,

or

Low in class, and having fun?

Fallacy of the false dicotomy. There are more than two choices and neither of your conditions relate to each other. Showing respect for others (not 'class') does not negate "fun" even if we use your limited idea of "fun".

quote:
Show me how to be a conformist, and happy too.[]

No one asked you to be a conformist. I don't know where you get your ideas about self-respect, achievement, consideration and etc. from, but they are very distorted. But for the record, many people find comfort in conformity - I am not one, but I don't devalue that experience like you do.

I contend you would have more real joy if you respected yourself, showed respect for others and reached for higher goals than giggling at large breasts and vulgar jokes. I've done that, and grew out of it, so I know both sides, as you don't.

But you are welcome to live in your world. You don't seem to like it, but if that's the best you want, I won't argue. I will not sit still and pretend it's a good thing though. I respect you too much to not speak the truth.

Your idea of fun is little more than temporary physical pleasure. Have you ever spent three years learning a skill so that you could join a troupe of performers? That's real fun. Have you ever made a ConLang with a group of friends and built a RPG based upon it which is still running 15 years later? That's real fun. Have you ever saved a family from the ruin of drug addiction by being there for several years every time they needed someone to talk to? That's real fun.

Have you ever loved someone, promised to love them forever, reached a point of not being able to stand them any more but then honored your promise by learning how to love them again? That's more than fun, that's Joy.

Have you ever raised a child? The first part takes nearly 20 years and the second part lasts your whole life. That's even more than Joy.

Self respect is a LOT better than self indulgence. Oddly enough, focusing on self respect first, allows you to enjoy occasional self indulgence even more, but being trapped in self indulgence can prohibit you from enjoying self respect. Your comments witness this truth.

You really think that self respect is bad. This is because self indulgence has you by the short hairs. I don't envy you.

[markofkane]

Sounds more like satisfaction than happiness. Yes, if I had those opportunities, maybe I would find them to bring me happiness.

You are generalizing me as one that laughs at "juvenile" things all of the time. I have my serious side, but don't show it here. I am not comfortable to be serious here. There are times that I must be serious, like when my mother was dying of cancer, )or when my dogs got sick, and had to be put to sleep.) The constant control my mother had on me while she was alive (I love her, but she kept me under her thumb by threats, and then later, guilt)
Contrary to what you might believe about me, I have had a terrible life, but I won't get into that here. Whatever joy I can have is a blessing, even though it's not up to your standards. I use humor to get past the sorrow.

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by markofkane
"Hey! wats up?? I am going 2 see U soon!!"

If you criticize them, they will use an expletive against you. Or in forums where cursing is not allowed, personal attacks.

...and you think that's better than my reasoned and non-judgmental expression of my personal opinion?

quote:
I do appreciate proper grammar, however I found it to be futile to demand perfect grammar from everyone.

So do I, which is why I have never demanded any such thing. I only explain to those who care to listen, that such behavior is relevatory.

quote:
I am not really defending bad grammar, I am defending the right of people to do as they please, as long as they are not hurting anyone.

As am I. Do you defend my right to express my opinion?

quote:
 I am a more tolerant person, and I cannot help that.

"More tolerant"? Does that mean you judge me to be "Less tolerant"? Should I be denied my right to express my feelings and thoughts? Doesn't your "tolerance" extend to reasoned discourse about general topics? It should, since it seems to extend to obscene personal attacks on other forums.

Just asking...

[markofkane]

quote:Originally posted by Bill DeWitt

quote:Originally posted by markofkane
"Hey! wats up?? I am going 2 see U soon!!"

If you criticize them, they will use an expletive against you. Or in forums where cursing is not allowed, personal attacks.

...and you think that's better than my reasoned and non-judgmental expression of my personal opinion?

quote:
I do appreciate proper grammar, however I found it to be futile to demand perfect grammar from everyone.

So do I, which is why I have never demanded any such thing. I only explain to those who care to listen, that such behavior is relevatory.

quote:
I am not really defending bad grammar, I am defending the right of people to do as they please, as long as they are not hurting anyone.

As am I. Do you defend my right to express my opinion?

quote:
 I am a more tolerant person, and I cannot help that.

"More tolerant"? Does that mean you judge me to be "Less tolerant"? Should I be denied my right to express my feelings and thoughts? Doesn't your "tolerance" extend to reasoned discourse about general topics? It should, since it seems to extend to obscene personal attacks on other forums.

Just asking...

Why do you take everything I say as an insult? It's not meant to be an insult. I am just expressing myself without insinuating anything.

I said I could not help being more tolerant, meaning it is a fault of mine.

Your words seem to show hostility, but maybe I am reading it wrong??

You have a right to your opinions, but how you word sentences shows how you are projecting those words. Am I misinterpreting your sentences?

[markofkane]

quote:Originally posted by rockershaft

Mark,

Should cause and effect be euthanized?

If you euthanize the cause, then there may be no effect.

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by markofkane

Sounds more like satisfaction than happiness.

You are wrong.

quote:Yes, if I had those opportunities, maybe I would find them to bring me happiness.

We make opportunities.

quote:You are generalizing me as one

No, I asked you, you told me. Now you are telling me something else.

I am sorry you had a hard life. Mine was also hard. I lost both my parents and my brothers and sisters at age 13 and lived on the street for 8 years. I was put in prison for a crime I did not commit, although I could have been caught doing one just as bad. I ran a strip bar, got hooked on drugs, nearly ended my life in a run down shack in the woods. Then someone treated me as I am treating you.

A TaiChi instructor would not accept any of my excuses. He taught me to develop a skill, then taught me how to teach a skill. I learned about real Joy, as you could learn. The particular skill is not important, Juggling, writing, bowling, whatever. It is the effort to improve yourself that counts. If you work for years to improve yourself, you know that you are better than you were, that is self respect. Expecting others to be better than they are is respecting them. Excusing their poor behavior is showing disrespect for them.

Humans need self respect to experience joy, and they do not get it by self indulgence. A hard life is not a barrier, it is the fuel of a higher Joy. Those who have easy lives probably find it harder to do what it takes to reach Joy.

[jackgephart]

quote:Originally posted by markofkane

quote:Originally posted by rockershaft

Mark,

Should cause and effect be euthanized?

If you euthanize the cause, then there may be no effect.

Love is the answer[]

[Bill DeWitt]

quote:Originally posted by markofkane

quote:
Just asking...

Why do you take everything I say as an insult?

I don't. I asked questions about what you said. You didn't answer those questions.

Why don't you think about my questions and then answer them? I don't even need to know your answers, just think about my questions, then think about your answers.

[markofkane]

Alrighty, then.

My mother had "problems" that would make her accuse me and my father of doing things we never did. As a child growing up, my mother would have me afraid to sleep, because I was afraid she'd get me while I was sleeping. It wasn't all the time she was like this, but it could happen without warning.

My summer vacations in school were spent in the house. She would not let me go outside, unless she was with me. And she did not go outside very often.

Funny, although I did not like school, I felt bad when it was time for me to get out for the summer. I knew I would not see my friends for 3 months.

Then she let me go over to a neighbor's house, to play. But then she would ground me for "talking about her behind her back" which wasn't true.

My mother had me in fear a lot. She once snuck up on me and threw a bowl of soup on me while I was sleeping.It wasn't hot, but I had to clean myself up and the bed. Do you know what it's like to be in constant fear of your parent? (she even threatened to stab me in my sleep)

Then she got ill, and although she could not hurt me anymore, she used guilt to control me.

Now, remember, she was a saint when she wasn't mean. I loved her when she was kind and sweet. But that wasn't often enough. When relatives came around, she acted all sweet. They never got to see her dark side, except my uncle did.

My uncle was the light, while my mother was the dark. He had a great sense of humor. And he taught Kung-Fu at the Y. He wouldn't teach me, and I never understood why.

Maybe he thought I would use it against his sister?? (my mother)

Alright, that's all I want to reveal. There are things I will not tell anyone.

However, look at me, I took a bad life, and did not become bitter. I find that to be quite an accomplishment, even if I say so myself.

[markofkane]

quote:Originally posted by Bill DeWitt

quote:Originally posted by markofkane

quote:
Just asking...

Why do you take everything I say as an insult?

I don't. I asked questions about what you said. You didn't answer those questions.

Why don't you think about my questions and then answer them? I don't even need to know your answers, just think about my questions, then think about your answers.

Will do.[8D]

[rockershaft]

Mark,

I think silence is the answer to the liars paradox of seeing only lies in input as being his silence of out put as the only answer that is true to himself.

Later dude.

Paul

[rockershaft]

Opps i did a liars response by saying out put instead of output.

That's ok we all make mistakes, even Julia.