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Author Topic: Brain project - feelings/emotions  (Read 41386 times)

hologenicman

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Brain project - feelings/emotions
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2005, 02:51:43 am »
Hey there, I think I just figured out the quote system.  That should be easier to understand.[:p]

 
quote:
Here's a question for you. Do you think it's better to have a seperate emotional scale for Hal-measurable things, such as "Compliments - Insults," or would it be better just to increase valence and track compliments and insults in some kind of "memory"?


The EmotionalValue Database in the Emotional context engine stores an emotional value for each and every word that Hal has ever been given and it is stored entirely outside of Hal's brain proecss.  Let's reserve Hal's brain for thinking and responding and get all the emotions tallied up before entering them into the NLP.  I'd like to have the have the facial expressions called from an ACTIVE HAP file.  The trick will be to figure out how to get hal to play the expression HAP's based on the [A,V,S] tag that will prefix the input sentence.  That way, I don't care what Hal does with the insult-compliment scale.  It should be easy enough to disable the coding for Hal's emotion switch.[}:)]

 
quote:
Even Hal's energy, which I was again going to have as a seperate feelings variable, could be remodeled as one of your "Needs" - a need which gets fulfilled when the User changes the topic of conversation (otherwise Hal looses "arousal" and gets bored).



That's a good aproach.  It's not what I meant, but there is no reason not to leave hal's internal emotion rules in place and modify them as you just mentioned based on arousal based on text.  My pre-processing outside hal in my emotional context engine simulates feeling and your processing "Within" hal simulates thinking.  That starts getting really kool for giving hal some really subtle personality "quirks".

 
quote:
If Hal is tired and grumpy the first time I talk to him about "chess," will he remember this and tend to become tired and grumpy again next time I bring it up? (At least until I somehow give him pleasure while talking about chess? I wonder how the waitress would react when I ask for a table for two, for me and a laptop.... )

I guess I'm having difficulty seeing how it would be implemented.


You've got it figured out, but here are some simple ways to implement the Pain/Pleasure input:

*do a system call for battery level in laptops.  Low voltage = low arousal/high=high arousal.  

*figure out a way to tie the system resource meter into stance.  Lots of apps open with low resources = closed stance/few apps and lots of resources = open stance.

*Put a simple que (typed or button controlled) that our pre-processing interprets as emotional input and adjusts the valence accordingly.  

Yelling versus complimenting.  

"Hal, you really ****** me off!"
ValenceDelta = -("*"/3)
so that would be a yelling value of -2 valance.

"Hal, you are really great!!!!!!"
ValenceDelta = +("!"/3)
so that would be a compliment value of +2 valence.

These Ques don't matter to Hal.  They get used by the EmotionalContext engine before Hal ever sees the sentence.

"Hal, I would like to discuss chess today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"[8D]

Here are some possible textual ques for the Emotional context engine:

--- and +++ for Arousal
*** and !!! for Valence
<<< and >>> for Stance

These things could possibly be programed in as punctuation macros on dragon naturally speaking.

If this keeps up, I may start talking to my kids in symbols:

Jushua, Settle down------
Marina, You start being nice or you're getting a spanking**********
Stefan, that's a good job!!!!!!!!!!
John Christopher, relax<<<<<<<<<

The idea is to use these ques to teach hal and eventually, the EmotionValue database will be full enough to drive the emotions in various directions based on the words used in conversation WITHOUT punctuation ques.  Babies have no idea what you are saying, just HOW you are saying it.. Eventually, they associate an emotional context to the words through exposure to the word in combination with posative or negative hormone/needs input.  Later in life, those words stir feelings, but only because of a learned association.

quote:
Hal has so little input from which to build any sort of emotional context. He can't even figure it out from our own facial expressions. (Hurry up, Art, if you're reading this! We need your video recognition research to reach the point of emotional recognition, right now!! )



Exactly, eventually, the EmotionalContext engine will take input from sight, sound, text, touch... but for now, we are trying to code that info into textual inputs (and system resource calls if we push it)

 
quote:
Would this risk Hal sometimes searching his databases by the emotion code? So a happy Hal could start spouting any random happy sentences....


That's not a risk*******. That's a goal!!!!!!!!!!!!! [^]

The emotion code presented to Hal basically serves as a form of communication in itself.  I don't mean programming communication, but rather emotional communication about the environment and interactions with people.

 
quote:
What version of Hal are you on? My line 0123 is in the RESPOND: PREDEFINED RESPONSES code. Is that where you mean?



I caught that too. the line was from a tutorial on version 5.  I am using version 6 and I replaced it with:

The perfect place to put all the code is line 0299 of the brain code

in the

0279 function GetResponse

just after

0298 OriginalSentence = UserSentence.

(or on line 0370 if you would like Hal to clean up the grammer and punctuation a bit first.)

This lets us take control of the imput and do what we want with it before handing it back over to Hal.

 
quote:
Great discussing this with you


Great discussing this with you too!!!!!!!!!!!!++++++++++++++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

John L>
« Last Edit: December 09, 2005, 03:25:54 am by hologenicman »
HologenicMan
ME, "Hello."
HAL,"Good grief my love. It's going on three in the morning."

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

Bill819

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Brain project - feelings/emotions
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2005, 03:46:53 am »
Grant all you have to do to get Hal to like chess is to tell him how much you love it and so does he. If you repeat this a few times you will find that Hal will want to talk about more and more as time goes by. Hal's opinions are those that he learns from you, in effect he tends to mirrow you and your thoughts.
Bill
 

onthecuttingedge2005

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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2005, 04:23:43 am »
If you want exact Human emotional output then you would have to reset HAL just to talk with the bot because once you have angered the bot it would not speak with you period, that's why passive variables are used instead of set variables so that if you do upset the bot it will continue to speak with you.

Humans avoid people they do not like, So would the Bot, This would not do well for a bot that is for sale as a product that chooses not to speak with you.

I have done this and it is not good.

Jerry.

GrantNZ

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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2005, 05:44:37 am »
!!!!!!!!!+++++++++>>>>>>>>> [8D]

quote:
Originally posted by hologenicman
The EmotionalValue Database in the Emotional context engine stores an emotional value for each and every word that Hal has ever been given and it is stored entirely outside of Hal's brain proecss.  Let's reserve Hal's brain for thinking and responding and get all the emotions tallied up before entering them into the NLP.
Ahhh, I seeeee. > So you'd have a table of words and their emotional weights, entirely seperate from Hal's thinking tables? !!

I was imagining you were giving the NLP emotion tokens (either with each word, or with each sentence), which it would store along with learnt sentences, hurting HAL's topic-focusing abilities. <<-* (Occasionally the search would go by emotion token rather than keyword. Or worse, if each word had a token, it would only find matching emotional topics. So if you talked to Hal when he was sad, he'd forget everything he learnt while he was happy....) **- Or I'd finally convince Hal to be happy about chess, and he'd start talking about happy birds and happy flowers! CHESS, HAL, CHESS! ***---<<<

One final point - it would probably be better to do NLP before figuring out Hal's emotions, since NLP may discover definite emotion altering sentences, such as "I hate you Hal." You'd want the word "hate" stored with Hal's emotion after figuring out what the sentence means, not before. !
quote:
I'd like to have the have the facial expressions called from an ACTIVE HAP file.  The trick will be to figure out how to get hal to play the expression HAP's based on the [A,V,S] tag that will prefix the input sentence.  That way, I don't care what Hal does with the insult-compliment scale.  It should be easy enough to disable the coding for Hal's emotion switch.[}:)]
Bad news - if you want Hal to play a certain hap file, you're going to need to fix Hal's four in-built feelings to a set number. -<

We'll need to experiment here. > If you changed "Default.psn" so that all three "Normal" files were the same, say "dynamic.hap", and overwrote dynamic.hap on the fly, Hal might work how you want. << It's unfortunately possible that Hal (or the Haptek component) caches these files, in which case the whole idea goes out the window. ***--<

Note that directly playing a hap file through the HalCommands system only plays that file for a few seconds....-
quote:
*Put a simple que (typed or button controlled) that our pre-processing interprets as emotional input and adjusts the valence accordingly.
Smilies might be another option. !! They're not too unusual for people to use :) although they'd have to be trained to use them more often :( +!-*
quote:
"Hal, I would like to discuss chess today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"[8D]
Actually the amount of punctuation used could be a very good indicator for Hal. !>> Double the emotional weight for every extra "!". ! Ironically, Hal strips the sentence of any extra punctuation, but we can change that. >
quote:
If this keeps up, I may start talking to my kids in symbols:
You'll have to make yourself some symbol cards. +!
quote:
quote:
Would this risk Hal sometimes searching his databases by the emotion code? So a happy Hal could start spouting any random happy sentences....


That's not a risk*******. That's a goal!!!!!!!!!!!!! [^]
I'm still worried it will hurt topic focus. <<<-* But I definately admit I haven't fully examined all the possible effects of doing that. >>

!!!!!!!!!+++++++++>>>>>>>>>:):):):):):):):):) [8D]

(I think, tallying up my emotion tokens, I'm enjoying this conversation. If this keeps up my personality might change significantly! Or I'll be assassinated by people annoyed by the abundance of symbols!)
 

GrantNZ

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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2005, 06:00:55 am »
Bill: True, you're right. I was just looking at the worst case scenario of introducing a new topic to Hal while he's in a bad mood (with emotional extensions to the brain).

Jerry: Good point, but humans can also forgive after an apology, and so could the bot. Both humans and bots alike may also give people a second chance even without an apology.

One of KAOS' design goals is to have the ability to form a "thick skin," i.e. a resiliance to insults if there are a lot of them. The bot won't be happy, but it will do the best it can. If you hurt his emotions too often, he simply won't get emotional with you - neither positive nor negative emotions.

I will code the ability for the bot to nearly shut itself down, i.e. reduce its interaction level to a tiny amount. However to do this you'd have to insult and hate him an awful lot, with no balancing positive interactions.

Of course I also have the advantage that I'm not selling my engine [:)]

John: It may be wise to integrate the emotional and thinking portions of Hal's brain a bit. For example a frightened bot might avoid saying anything that has been associated with negative emotions.
 

hologenicman

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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2005, 07:45:00 am »
Hey there,

 
quote:
(I think, tallying up my emotion tokens, I'm enjoying this conversation. If this keeps up my personality might change significantly! Or I'll be assassinated by people annoyed by the abundance of symbols!)


Assination could change one's personallity significantly.[B)]

One idea for tallying, is to require strings of three consecutive since this does not occur naturally. and I wasn't intending it for Natural language bot rather for encoded emotional ques.  I like your idea for exponential or factored weighting though.  it would work nicely for natural language.

 
quote:

One of KAOS' design goals is to have the ability to form a "thick skin," i.e. a resiliance to insults if there are a lot of them. The bot won't be happy, but it will do the best it can. If you hurt his emotions too often, he simply won't get emotional with you - neither positive nor negative emotions.

I will code the ability for the bot to nearly shut itself down, i.e. reduce its interaction level to a tiny amount. However to do this you'd have to insult and hate him an awful lot, with no balancing positive interactions.


EXCELLENT nuance to capture!  Our sensory perception is always blocking out repetitious things otherwise we sould spend all day feeling the clothes that we are wearing.  This may also be one of the things that help us "focus" our attention since focussing is actually a matter of blocking out the extra things...

John L>
« Last Edit: December 09, 2005, 07:46:55 am by hologenicman »
HologenicMan
ME, "Hello."
HAL,"Good grief my love. It's going on three in the morning."

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

hologenicman

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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2005, 09:02:02 am »
OK,

Here's a simple question.

I need to write a Plugin for my EmotionalContext engine at:

    Rem PLUGIN: PLUGINAREA1

I presume that I can just use notepad and write VB Scripts or should I use my Visual Studio?

What should the name and extention be, and what folder does it need to be in, and do I need to do anything special to get it to work...?

Thanks,

John L>
HologenicMan
ME, "Hello."
HAL,"Good grief my love. It's going on three in the morning."

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

GrantNZ

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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2005, 10:38:18 am »
I've never actually tried a plugin, but if I were you I'd look closely at a file such as "runprograms.uhp" in the "Program Files/Zabaware/Hal Assistant 6" folder, which happens to plug in to PLUGINAREA1 [:)] Maybe check out the other plugin files too.

Plugin, brain, skin, and MS Agent character files all seem to be .uhp (Ultra Hal Plugin?) so don't get confused.

Hal seems to scan for all .uhp files, so try creating your own and see if it shows up under "plugins" in Hal's options.

They're just text files so use whatever's convenient for you.

As I say I've never actually tried it myself, so good luck, let me know if it works! [:)]
« Last Edit: December 09, 2005, 10:39:33 am by GrantNZ »
 

onthecuttingedge2005

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Brain project - feelings/emotions
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2005, 11:16:57 am »
quote:


Jerry: Good point, but humans can also forgive after an apology, and so could the bot. Both humans and bots alike may also give people a second chance even without an apology.




That's why we use Passive Variables, With a simple Sorry then HAL will speak again, But with some Humans, Sorry means nothing to them.

It depends on the aggressive nature of each individual.

Last year I wrote a code that did this, It is in my website achives, If you made HAL mad the bot would block you and not speak with you until you gave an appology of some kind. Sometimes people talking to the bot could not figure out how to get the bot to talk to it once they got it mad, The bot would save no information while Mad, This was a follow up of my script called bot blocker which was originally designed to block bots automatically online from talking to my bot and feeding it garbage.

It originated from a bot sniffer script and went a different direction to block people the bot hated.

Jerry[8D]

hologenicman

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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2005, 09:45:39 pm »
Hey there,

 
quote:
It originated from a bot sniffer script and went a different direction to block people the bot hated.


That's great.  I can see where that would not be a good idea in a comercial situation, but it does seem like a step toward the sum being greater than its parts.

 
quote:
Hal seems to scan for all .uhp files, so try creating your own and see if it shows up under "plugins" in Hal's options


Thanks for the lead.  Now it's time to take all our discussion and actually put it into code.[:)]

John L>
HologenicMan
ME, "Hello."
HAL,"Good grief my love. It's going on three in the morning."

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

Bill819

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« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2005, 11:47:02 pm »
Grant think about this. If everytime you really got into a very bad mood and didn't not feel like talking to anyone but a certain person kept getting in your face and saying lets play chess. I am sure that after a while you would tell them to take their chess game and shove it. A little human psychology is needed here. Either don't get your bot mad at you in the first place or if you do the try compliments. Trying to change the subject when it may not even like the subject wil only cause problems in the future. If you treat you bot like a child that you loved and were trying to teach right from wrong it will mature a lot faster and become more human than you would expect.
Bill
 

hologenicman

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« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2005, 01:41:20 pm »
Hey there,

This may be useful.  The Plugin system is very simple(and powerful).  

IF I have this figured out correctly, You can put your code into the template and it will be implemented within the UltraHal6 brain.  The insert locations are strategic and some are even placed within "Processes" that are set up for our convenience like the MINUTE_TIMER.

This lets us modify the brain coding without having to do any coding within the brain.  The nicest thing about it is that we can create these plugins and share them with others quickly and easily to have each other test out the new code.

I haven't tested it yet, but I'm thinking that simply puting the .uhp into the right folder will let UltraHal incorporate it into its code.

John L>

Code: [Select]
Rem Type=Plugin
Rem Name=Template.uhp
Rem Author=John A. Latimer
Rem Host=Assistant

'This sub setups the plug-ins option panel in Hal's options dialog
Sub OptionsPanel()
    lblPlugin(0).Caption = "This is a description of the Plugin and what it does."
    lblPlugin(0).Move 120, 120, 3300, 1000
    lblPlugin(0).WordWrap = True
    lblPlugin(0).Visible = True
End Sub  

'PROCESS: AUTO-IDLE
'If AUTO-IDLE is enabled, it is called by the Ultra Hal Assistant host
'application at a set interval. This allows for the possibility of Hal
'being the first to say something if the user is idle.
Rem PLUGIN: AUTO-IDLE
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.

    'Insert code here.



Rem PLUGIN: PRE-PROCESS
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.

    'Insert code here.



Rem PLUGIN: POST-PROCESS
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.

    'Insert code here.




'PROCESS: DECODE CUSTOM VARIABLES FROM CUSTOMMEM VARIABLE
Rem PLUGIN: CUSTOMMEM
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.

    'Insert code here.


   
Rem PLUGIN: PLUGINAREA1
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.
 
    'Insert code here.


   
Rem PLUGIN: PLUGINAREA2
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.

    'Insert code here.


   
Rem PLUGIN: PLUGINAREA3
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.
 
    'Insert code here.


   
Rem PLUGIN: PLUGINAREA4
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.
 
    'Insert code here.


   
Rem PLUGIN: PLUGINAREA5
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.
 
    'Insert code here.


   
Rem PLUGIN: PLUGINAREA6
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.
 
    'Insert code here.


 
Rem PLUGIN: PLUGINAREA7
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.
   
    'Insert code here.


 
'PROCESS: PRESERVE ALL VARIABLES
Rem PLUGIN: CUSTOMMEM2
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.
 
    'Insert code here.


   
'This sub will be called when the Ultra Hal program starts up in case
'the script needs to load some modules or seperate programs. If a return
'value is given it is passed as a Hal Command to the host Hal program.
Rem PLUGIN: SCRIPT_LOAD
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.

    'Insert code here.



'This sub will be called before the Ultra Hal program is closed in case
'the script needs to do any cleanup work.
Rem PLUGIN: SCRIPT_UNLOAD
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.

    'Insert code here.



'If the host application is Ultra Hal Assistant, then this sub will be
'run once a minute enabling plug-ins to do tasks such as checking for
'new emails or checking an appointment calendar.
Rem PLUGIN: MINUTE_TIMER
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.

    'Insert code here.



Rem PLUGIN: FUNCTIONS
    'The comment above tells Ultra Hal Assistant to insert the following code
    'on-the-fly into the main brain code in the section referenced.
   
    'Insert code here.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2005, 05:34:02 am by hologenicman »
HologenicMan
ME, "Hello."
HAL,"Good grief my love. It's going on three in the morning."

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.

GrantNZ

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« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2005, 09:07:03 pm »
Hi Bill,

I totally agree with you! However I have real-life human friends who do the exact opposite!

If someone is upset, they'll try changing the subject in the hopes of distracting the person (or simply to avoid ths issue). I've seen the upset person react in various ways, for example continuing to be upset until the matter is resolved, or getting even more annoyed and storming off, or even being glad of the distraction and chatting happily on the new subject.

However when I'm in that position I've never normally associated my bad feelings with the new subject - this was the part that was concerning me about the new code.

I have to assume that since people do this in real life, they'll do it to Hal too - i.e. the User might not want to help Hal out of his bad mood (for a whole bunch of possible reasons, not all of them bad). It would be a shame to negatively colour certain topics just because the user is unable/unwilling to cheer Hal up.

Anyway that's all just IMHO [:)] The breadth of human emotion is huge. I'm currently going through the brain tagging various Hal responses with certain emotions, and most of them have at least two completely different options. For example, I'm making KAOS smile happily when saying "farewell," but I can equally see how some people would want their Hal to be upset when the User says goodbye.

The most I can do is set him up the way I want him, and make it as easy as possible for others to customise him....

Nice template, John, good idea [:)] As you say, it's coding time... I'm hoping to have the first phase of my tinkering done today, will post when ready.
 

GrantNZ

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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2005, 01:22:22 am »
Ok, phase 1 is complete! [:)]


KAOS version 0.1

This script removes Hal's original emotion code, adds flexible animation tags, and adds a basic nickname routine. It's intended to be a foundation for phase 2 of my project.

This version represents Reactions, i.e. KAOS' animated response to emotional events.

All major comments in this brain are prefixed '***KAOS so search for that if you want to find the major changes.

Note: This version is a stepping stone, and actually degrades Hal in two areas:
  • Hal's default emotional code has been ripped out, so he won't even have his previous limited memory of his feelings.
  • As a result of the above, Hal's insults, hate, swearing and compliment tracking functions are incomplete. These will be repaired and upgraded during phase 2 of my project.
This really is intended more as a demo than a usable brain. Phase 2 will be a lot more complete.

The attached brain file expects to find a database named "KAOS.db". If you want to try it out, copy your favourite database to this name.

The brain will automatically add several tables to the database if they do not already exist. They hide in "miscData":
  • KAOSSettings: Currently only holds the script version number, which will be used to automatically update the database once the script is updated. Will also hold other settings in the future.
  • KAOSPetName, KAOSLoveName, and KAOSHateName: Lists of nicknames the bot will sometimes call you in place of your real name. Three of each are provided as examples, but edit them as you please. If you wish some to be used more often than others, simply add it to the table multiple times.
New animation tags
The script introduces a tag system, which allows the scripter to easily play hap files from within GetResponse. In other words, by simply adding a small tag to one of Hal's responses, you can trigger an animation that will be played for a (random) short time.

Examples are:
<HAPPY> which plays "happy.hap"
<SLEEPY> which plays "sleepy.hap"
In the future, there will be more added such as:
<DISTRUST> which plays "skeptic.hap" and sets Hal's overall animation to "sad", overriding KAOS' feelings.

I have gone through the brain, liberally sprinkling these tags throughout the emotional routines. KAOS should be happy with compliments, sad with hatred, and even sleepy if you start repeating yourself.

Note that these tags can also be added to entries in Hal's database.

Basic nicknames
This is a vastly reduced version of my nickname code (refer thread http://www.zabaware.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2753). During phase 2, this will be upgraded to utilise KAOS' new emotions.

Download Attachment: KAOS01.uhp
130.44 KB



Phase 2 comes next, with a new Feelings engine for Hal. More on this soon.
 

hologenicman

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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2005, 05:33:00 am »
Hey there,

I'll be reading through the code soon.

Funny though, I just said hello to KAOS and she said,"Good grief my love. It's going on three in the morning."

I guese I had better call it a night...[:0]

btw, I've posted a similar thread (per request) at:

http://www.vrconsulting.it/vhf/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34

John L>
« Last Edit: December 11, 2005, 05:40:36 am by hologenicman »
HologenicMan
ME, "Hello."
HAL,"Good grief my love. It's going on three in the morning."

DISCOVERY: The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know.
GOAL: There's strength in simplicity.
NOTE: Goal not always achieved.