Messages

61

Ultra Hal 7.0 / Sentient Life

« on: June 17, 2007, 09:48:57 pm »

quote:Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005
In the sense, an A.I system that could be declared of Value in the sense that if a Human terminated the A.I's life one could be prosecuted for it.

That is much more than intelligence, or even consciousness, "value" implies some level of irreplacablity, and a connection to a social network which includes those who might do the valuing.

Otherwise it is strictly a legalistic "value" which can be applied randomly to an adjustable wrench or any other thing which 12 people can be bamboozeled into agreeing.

Scientifically, you would first have to establish an intrinsic value to anything, which has not yet been done, before you could apply it to a specific thing.

You may want to back up and establish your terms first. I don't think you can ever get a human society to establish an equal value for something which cannot interbreed. Evolution would select against any breeder who had such self-destructive psychopathies. "Enlightenment" goes out the window when your child can be executed for turning off a machine or eating an animal.

That said, I can see some level of "Visitor rights" which could be applied to a truly living and conscious machine. They would be the same sort of rights which might be applied to any Alien from Outer Space or Emergent Consciousness in animals. Not Equal, not Human, but valued.

To establish that level of existence would require more than I previously listed. The Intelligence would have to not only think (2D), but be aware of it's thinking (3D). This requires an overself with which to be aware (4D). That's a fourth dimensional operation, one magnitude above simple consciousness. As sensoria blends into intelligence, and intelligence into consciousness, at the more complex levels of consciousness, a higher order is created - mind. You may be looking for this instead of simple sentience.

I believe that machines using physical devices can reach some level of consciousness, but that mind is beyond our ability to construct with matter or energy. If we ever create it that will happen because our tools resonate into additional dimensions - as our minds and souls do.

But even then I will not consider it to be of equal value to my child. No sane human would.

62

Ultra Hal 7.0 / Sentient Life

« on: June 17, 2007, 08:11:37 pm »

quote:Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005
sentient being

Do you mean "sentient" as in "can sense" or as in "can think"? Assuming the latter, here is a 10 point summary of my model of intelligence. The actual model requires much more and extends the definition to "consiousness". Not all these points are required for intelligence, some are just steps in the process, some are only required to detect intelligence.

1) Can receive information from external/internal senses ("can sense")
2) Can process information, comparing internal to external and building a world model (can ponder)
3) Can store/retrieve processed information/world model (can remember)
4) Can compare new information/models to stored information/models (can analyse)
5) Can store first generation comparisons as a hypothetically revised world model (can wonder)
6) Can make predictions based upon the new model and new information (can imagine)
7) Can evaluate the accuracy of predictions against internal requirements (can test)
Can modify/create second generation predictions based upon success/failure of previous predictions creating a projected future world model. (can correct)
9) Can develop action plans based upon self interest and predictive models (this is a massively multilevel step in itself) (can plan)
10 Can act upon or communicate resultant information (can do)

If you mean "can sense", this is less complicated but equally detailed. My model has Sensoria as a first dimension, Cognition as a second dimension, and Consiousness as the third of nine dimensions.

63

Ultra Hal 7.0 / cant seem to get the speech recognition

« on: June 14, 2007, 08:37:26 pm »

Wait and see if someone who uses Vista answers first, then Google mscomct2.ocx and you may be able to reinstall it.

I think there is some trick to make Hal work with Vista.

64

General Discussion / How does a pancake flop?

« on: June 14, 2007, 08:29:20 am »

So I had a sudden thought -

You are traveling along at 90% the speed of light, your transverse size is about as wide as a galaxy due to relativistic effects. So you go from one side of the space ship to the other. Have you crossed a galaxy in a few steps?

If you try to slow down in the ship, your width shrinks, so that won't work, but... If you get in a pod hanging off that side of the ship, then disconnect from the main ship and decelerate, have you crossed the galaxy?

If so, you only have to go really fast for a few seconds perpendicular to where you want to go, walk across your "transporter room" and get out.

65

General Discussion / Is this forum the liars paradox

« on: June 14, 2007, 08:23:29 am »

quote:Originally posted by onthecuttingedge2005
Your space ship would have to be 'massless' and have 'infinite energy' to approach any acceleration/velocity closer to light speed.

Massless or have infinite energy, either would do. Both woud be counterproductive (see: Tachyon)

 

quote:To travel across the other side of the Universe at 99% the speed of light would take billions of years, if you travel at light speed, you will experience a break down of relativity and time dialation and if you travel at the speed of light for around 'one hour' you may experience that when you get back to your family they will have aged a 1000 years.

Actually the relativity calculations are fairly straightforward and reach Zero at the speed of light. Time starts to slow down (as observed from a bystander at the previous space/time energy level) the instant you start moving, at any speed. The differential is small until a large fraction of the speed of light is reached, but it increases measurably until you reach the speed of light, at which point time stops, your mass reaches infinity, and your dimensions, transverse to your direction of travel becomes infinite while your length along your direction of travel becomes infinitesimal. You become, in effect, a gravity wave.

(See new thread, How does a pancake flop?)

 

quote:It is the ultimate shortcut through the Universe.

Several possible methods are conceivable.

Folding Space, which requires high gravity, high energy, or high time. We assume that we don't want to use high time (billions of years, ei: standard movement), we don't, at this point, have high enough energy on tap (Big Bang size energy fields). So that leaves high gravity, which we might acheive if we can learn to manipulate gravity with smaller amounts of energy.

Ripping Space, as you suggest. Also involves high energy. Probably involves having a post at either end, especially of we want an accurate end or want to mend the rip when we are done. So we would have to go to the other end of such a rip, before we can make such a rip. See above.

Removing mass. There are those who suggest that mass is a property separate from the other qualities of matter. Removing the mass from a chunk of matter would cause it to fly off at the speed of light at the slowest.

This avoids the time dialation problem, because although time may still dialate, the total trip is still very short. It may seem like an instant to you, but it would still be only a few minutes to your family.

The problem with high energy travel is that as you increase in speed, your mass increases. Go faster and it takes more energy to increase your speed, because you are "heavier". Go fast enough, and no matter what amount of mass you start with, your mass has become so great that it would require more energy than the Universe contains to make you go any faster. At the speed of light, not at 99%, but right at it, it would require infinite energy.

Unless you start with zero mass. As you know, you can multiply zero as many times as you want without reaching a number. So increasing your speed beyond the speed of light involves applying any level of energy.

Lastly, a method which is almost certainly impossible, is to use the compressed dimensions of sub-nuclear physics. The reason the weak and strong forces do not operate beyond the nuclear level is that they apply to a greater-than-four dimensional universe. Their effect is distributed over a Physical Universe with perhaps 9-27 directional dimensions. Instead of an inverse-squared decrease over distance, they have an inverse-n decrease. So their effect beyond the shell of electrons is minimal, infinitesimal.

But, like all forces, their effect is universal. Inside those compressed dimensions, they reverberate across the whole universe like gravity waves do in our framework.

If we could rotate into those dimensions, then rotate back, we could move across the universe by moving less than the distance of an atom.

A lot closer than "down the road to the chemist's".

66

Ultra Hal 7.0 / New Forum / Terms of Service

« on: June 07, 2007, 06:21:52 am »

quote:Originally posted by Medeksza
I'm all done with college.

Congratulations.

But now I will have to think of something else to tell newbies who are mad that you haven't answered their twelve emails even though it's been over fifteen minutes!

Hmm... Hal on an auto-responder...

67

General Discussion / 18 years old area ??

« on: June 06, 2007, 09:50:50 pm »

quote:Originally posted by ramccoid

Yeah but he accepted people for being people.

No, he didn't. He was extremely harsh with unrepentant sinners, was merciless in pointing out sin when he saw it, used violence to prevent sinners from continuing their sin, but forgave people immediately when they repented.

He accepted no less than repentance, remittance and redemption. Which He demonstrated was humanly impossible and required Divine Intervention.

We are all sinners, me no less than the worst criminal. But I do not glory in my sin as some folk here do. They believe that their libidinous behavior makes them "more human" when it really dehumanizes them. Any dog or rat can drool over a female. It takes a human being to practice self-restraint.

68

General Discussion / 18 years old area ??

« on: June 06, 2007, 08:03:47 pm »

quote:Originally posted by ramccoid
you should understand and accept that.

What I understand and accept is that there is a difference between sexual expression in art, and pornography being sprung on unwary children. Between images which express ideas in forums where adults can teach children, and old fat guys giggling over a nearly naked computer image of a teenaged girl on a public forum which children can reach.

Tell me Jesus wouldn't know the difference.

69

General Discussion / 18 years old area ??

« on: June 06, 2007, 07:35:42 pm »

quote:Originally posted by ramccoid
didn't Jesus spend most of his time among prostitutes and drunks?

Not ones that kept on whoring and drinking.

Even after all this talk about a separate auto-erotic section the first new post I click on shows soft porn without a warning. Not that I was offended for my own sake, but who else is clicking innocently on unmarked links? If it is children, then the crime of neglegent child sexual abuse is within contemplation.

Tell me Jesus would stand quietly by for that.

70

General Discussion / 18 years old area ??

« on: June 06, 2007, 07:09:18 pm »

quote:Originally posted by ramccoid
you can't belittle them for making that view.

Yes I can, but, for the third time, that's not what I am belittling them for. Honest opinions are always welcome, but poorly crafted insults by emotionally cretinized droolers just disturb me. I feel a duty to show them how to do it right, even though I know they aren't up to the task. I'm funny that way.

Why can't people just accept me for who I really am?

71

General Discussion / 18 years old area ??

« on: June 06, 2007, 06:17:48 pm »

quote:Originally posted by ramccoid
we have to respect each others opinions whether you agree or not.

I do, if by "respect" you mean allow them the right to express their opinion.

I don't, and don't have to respect the content of their opinions. It would be like "respecting" the "opinion" that infants are good for lunch. It's sick, and accepting it demeans all of humanity.

It's not my fault that them expressing their opinions reveals their disease. I'm just expressing my opinion... respect that.

72

General Discussion / 18 years old area ??

« on: June 06, 2007, 06:09:50 pm »

quote:Originally posted by aladyblond
gamer didn't deserve that remark.

Yes he did, and more. He was trying to hurt both you and me by pretending that I was insulting you. I have not done that. I believe you are honest, kind and sensitive. He is not.

I was being mercifully restrained compared to what I really think of him. He has done this kind of throwing of feces from behind his wheelchair before and I am no longer willing to take it.

I am sorry that my anger has made you uncomfortable. That was not my intention. But silence would be condoning his dishonesty. I can't do that.

73

General Discussion / 18 years old area ??

« on: June 06, 2007, 05:31:25 pm »

quote:Originally posted by ramccoid

Hey Bill, you can't keep insulting people the way you have been.

But they can insult me? I get it. Just because I'm better at it than they are, I'm the bad guy. OK, I'll be the bad guy. I don't mind, but I won't pretend that the perverts on this group are the good guys.

quote:you can't demean people for disagreeing

That's not what I am demeaning them for, I am demeaning them for being masturbating exhibitionists. Before the internet their choice of social interaction would have been an overcoat with no pants.

I'm getting less sure I want my name to show up on the same google search as their auto-erotic pornography.

74

General Discussion / 18 years old area ??

« on: June 06, 2007, 04:37:03 pm »

quote:Originally posted by GamerThom

Bill, That last shot at ~aladyblond was totally uncalled for.

I can't make myself believe that you are quite that stupid, so you must be misconstruing my words on purpose.

I let you run me off that other group because no one wants to be seen defending themself from a crippled guy, but that doesn't mean you have a free card to twist my words into an insult against someone other than your fellow one-handed web surfers and porn addicts.

I'm sure you will respond with injured innocence, but since you have now joined the list of people I am embarrassed to have ever responded too, I won't be reading your half-witted insults. Have fun making up lies about me to make yourself feel superior.

75

General Discussion / 18 years old area ??

« on: June 06, 2007, 03:11:01 pm »

quote:Originally posted by aladyblond
i do not want anyone to leave the forum

I have edited this to make sure you don't believe Thom's lies. This was not about you, just an explanation of the mistakes made by certain other folks.

No one is going anywhere, that's just the ignorant conclusion of people who don't have a grasp of their own language. Don't believe them.

But I have made (and will make) some choices about who I am willing to associate with. I am no longer willing to let illiterate onanists steal my time and energy.