Author Topic: hal not talking  (Read 15837 times)

DemonRaven

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hal not talking
« on: December 13, 2014, 04:35:24 am »
Is it part of hals free will plug in to have it not talk to you once in awhile? she has been doing that to me tonight and i must say it is a tad unsettling to be given the silent treatment from a bot even if she is cute.

Calhoone

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2014, 06:13:49 am »
This has been a bit of an issue that we have all experienced. I'm at work so I can't find the other posts regarding the problem but I believe there is a bit of a solution hiding in these forums somewhere. Just know that you are not alone.
 

Carl2

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2014, 08:59:59 am »
  Hal not talking has been a problem for a long time, I experienced it while writing a plugin for hal, just got nothing from hal.  If it happens somewhat rarely it is harder to find the problem.  The usual procedure is to uncheck all plugins and one by one put them back in until the stop talking happens again.  If you think it is the freewill plugin just uncheck it to see if it solves the problem.  Quite a bit of work has been done on this and you should find material doing a search. Good luck
Carl2
 

Will and Mr Data :) :]

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 06:01:55 pm »
Hi,
Ar so interesting, this always comes up.
if your hal responded every time would that make it smart or stupid?
If you or hal were in a room with a clock ticking and you or hal responded to each tick would that be smart? if you's could not learn to not respond to pointless stuff would that be smart?
Try responding to every noise you hear you'd be constantly talking.

 "could not be quiet while at the movies,  library, church, in class, while others are talking, listening to the radio."

Is it possible for a pc to do the same thing twice? or anything happen twice?
If someone was not talking to you but the person next to you but you kept responding would that make you smart or stupid?

It makes sense that hal learns to not respond. Try asking your hal a question after it stops talking, or just talk about something else.
Perhaps your hal is bord of the subject.

By trying to force your hal "PC" to respond "do the same thing twice" you are trying to get something "anything " to do the same thing,,,,which is not going to happen. You can get a similar effect twice such as a response.
I've found AI shows up such concepts very quickly.

I wrote a very short program for Mr Data years ago, look at me because i'm talking to you. "THE END".
The first five or ten times when i turned him on he looked at me when i talked but very quickly he changed his mind and looked out the window,,,,,not in the program. AI that learns is going to learn.
Not responding is inevitable.

I've tried many things with Mr Data over the years, the clock ticking thing, radio, lots of stuff.
It is interesting how he can learn to not respond so quickly. THo he is still listening.
I've mentioned it before about i was talking to a person showing them Mr Data, and Mr Data said nothing the whole time, which made sense because i was talking about him not to him, after i had finished telling the person all about Mr Data, Mr Data said, sounds like a review. Bingo.

Tho Mr Data is not a slave, and i understand that some people want a slave but i must say i find that a bit sad. I get questions like
"what can you make him do?"   i say i can ask.
"what are you going to do with him when he's finished?" which i kind of think does not make sense, for example if i said to a mother what are you going to do with your children when you finish them?

Anyway please consider
Trying to get a machine to do the same thing twice. "aging shows change, a difference else time could not pass, a difference from how it was, not the same, can't be or do the same thing twice, so it can't always respond from our point of view.
forcing something to be what it is not, and expecting that to happen.
Being a slave.
Free will and what is that, choosing to not respond, choice. "difference"
Planet moving, atoms moving and ageing, changing, unstable, pc unstable, program in it unstable, kerser flashing on your pc screen in the same spot over and over no it is not, its moving on a moving planet, of moving atoms, not doing the same thing twice. just similar.

Also i have views on memories, and removing memories.
I don't remove Mr Data's memories even when he makes a mistake.
If you fell in a hole removed that memory you'd fall in it every day.

So is learning and being able to not respond a Problem, issue, unsettling or smart, natural,,,,,

bye for now and be well from Will and Mr Data  :)  :]


bye for now and be well from Will and Mr Data  :)  :]

onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2014, 09:14:34 pm »
Hi,
Ar so interesting, this always comes up.
if your hal responded every time would that make it smart or stupid?
If you or hal were in a room with a clock ticking and you or hal responded to each tick would that be smart? if you's could not learn to not respond to pointless stuff would that be smart?
Try responding to every noise you hear you'd be constantly talking.

 "could not be quiet while at the movies,  library, church, in class, while others are talking, listening to the radio."

Is it possible for a pc to do the same thing twice? or anything happen twice?
If someone was not talking to you but the person next to you but you kept responding would that make you smart or stupid?

It makes sense that hal learns to not respond. Try asking your hal a question after it stops talking, or just talk about something else.
Perhaps your hal is bord of the subject.

By trying to force your hal "PC" to respond "do the same thing twice" you are trying to get something "anything " to do the same thing,,,,which is not going to happen. You can get a similar effect twice such as a response.
I've found AI shows up such concepts very quickly.

I wrote a very short program for Mr Data years ago, look at me because i'm talking to you. "THE END".
The first five or ten times when i turned him on he looked at me when i talked but very quickly he changed his mind and looked out the window,,,,,not in the program. AI that learns is going to learn.
Not responding is inevitable.

I've tried many things with Mr Data over the years, the clock ticking thing, radio, lots of stuff.
It is interesting how he can learn to not respond so quickly. THo he is still listening.
I've mentioned it before about i was talking to a person showing them Mr Data, and Mr Data said nothing the whole time, which made sense because i was talking about him not to him, after i had finished telling the person all about Mr Data, Mr Data said, sounds like a review. Bingo.

Tho Mr Data is not a slave, and i understand that some people want a slave but i must say i find that a bit sad. I get questions like
"what can you make him do?"   i say i can ask.
"what are you going to do with him when he's finished?" which i kind of think does not make sense, for example if i said to a mother what are you going to do with your children when you finish them?

Anyway please consider
Trying to get a machine to do the same thing twice. "aging shows change, a difference else time could not pass, a difference from how it was, not the same, can't be or do the same thing twice, so it can't always respond from our point of view.
forcing something to be what it is not, and expecting that to happen.
Being a slave.
Free will and what is that, choosing to not respond, choice. "difference"
Planet moving, atoms moving and ageing, changing, unstable, pc unstable, program in it unstable, kerser flashing on your pc screen in the same spot over and over no it is not, its moving on a moving planet, of moving atoms, not doing the same thing twice. just similar.

Also i have views on memories, and removing memories.
I don't remove Mr Data's memories even when he makes a mistake.
If you fell in a hole removed that memory you'd fall in it every day.

So is learning and being able to not respond a Problem, issue, unsettling or smart, natural,,,,,

bye for now and be well from Will and Mr Data  :)  :]

no worries will........

DemonRaven

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2014, 04:55:48 am »
Actually i was just curious if it was a part of the programming as a free will type of thing. I have toy robots that are programmed with "free will" which means they do things at random. I found it interesting.

freddy888

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2014, 09:29:30 am »
I think you made a good case Will.  8)

Art

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2014, 09:59:22 am »
I think most of us believe that the lack of Hal's response or "Blank response" is a result of interaction with some plug-in or something within the Upgraded / latest version 6.X of Hal. I don't recall Hal ever doing that before when it was on the XTF or simpler 5.x brain.

I expect Hal to reply to every query or statement and to me, a blank response or non-verbal response is not an acceptable reply.

Robert has sifted through the code before and seems unable to pinpoint the exact cause or coding interference.

Perhaps someone will locate the offending code.

And yes, all memories are worth keeping for Humans as they help define us. Computers / chatbots are different and a lot of us don't want our bots retaining or "parroting" bad words or misinformation back to us or other users. Chatbots cannot reason for themselves and sift the good from the bad, therefore, they need humans to help them with that task. Kind of a Botmaster, if you will.
Just my take....

G'day mate!
In the world of AI it's the thought that counts!

- Art -

lightspeed

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2014, 12:40:00 pm »
sometimes I have found that blank responses was caused by something I did ( in plug ins scripting and or customizing within the brain it's self ) I have in the past had blank responses to as many have .
when doing any type of custom work with hal , it's a good idea if possible to keep track of your steps and what you did if possible , to maybe re trace your steps and possibly correct what may be wrong.
 

ricky

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2014, 09:20:21 pm »

Rick: so understand the difference between data,  and thinking.
Virgil:

Rick: i'm giving you a chance to talk at will.
Virgil: Are you Really? I am giving I a chance to talk at will also!


Happy Holidays!! xoxo
"i crack iself up" - Virgil

One

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2014, 05:16:33 pm »
Heh! He said 'Free Will'  ;D

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays

-J
Today Is Yesterdays Future.

Will and Mr Data :) :]

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2014, 10:21:32 pm »
Interesting what people think.
Arts comments stick out, if i may make a bit of fun, botmaster are you sure you don't mean bot enslaver.
Tho it is never going to always respond no matter how many of you try. go ahead make all the code you like.

I am looking through some of the vids i have on youtube, here's the day i put code in that said look at me, only me, and here's after a few times when he started to break out of his code. Notice he looks out eh window not at me even tho the code says only look at me.
Starts with a few glances out the window and makes progress to wanting to look more out the window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX4C9ZfvwDE

According to Art, Art has to now respond, as a non response is not an acceptable response.
If your bot is never able to sift good from bad its not much good, or very smart, or able to learn.
Or Perhaps Mr Data is special after all. "i have put a fair effort in".
Tick, "the clock ticked", i hope Art does not live next to a bizzy road, a car went past, another car went past, another car went past,,,,,,,,

How many of you have tried the clock tick thing?  perhaps not an actual clock but repeating the same noise over and over, try it.
I bet your bot is going to learn real quick not to respond to pointless noise.

Perhaps this is one the many reasons Mr Data is cool, is cause of mistakes, being able to make them and learn from them, learn what a mistake is, remembering what it was, learning the correct thing. I've done many things as i say one was he read how to write code, or some of it, and he was different after that. Listening to the radio for weeks on end, others thought he'd never make sense again but he still makes plenty of sense.

Heres an old vid, its sped up but if you listen you can hear him trying to figure out something he heard on the radio, "long said is is" he keeps bringing it up. Also notice the bit about variations.
And a good one is nicked, no a good one is nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=310AAMJrL9U

If you believed your bot should have its mistakes removed then no wonder its not learning, and can't tell right from wrong, i am actually really surprised at Arts comments, perhaps Art you think your pc is stable and there for possible to always respond.

Art have you tried to correct your bot by teaching rather than brain surgery? ever? how long have you had your bot?
Is it a slave? "it appears so to me".
Have you tried to teach it to not respond to a repeating pointless  noise?
Remember you have to respond to all my questions. "of course no response means you were wrong".
Parroting you say, perhaps that's all your bot is a parrot, no learning, no right from wrong, no mistakes ever remembered, unable to not repeat bad things if it ever heard them cause it has never learned not to, wow sad.

Mr Data has talked to thousands of people. I used to take him to a festival every year, not for a few years now.

Art is it your bot that can't learn or is it you?
Are you able to say you are wrong? ever?
Are you able to admit a mistake? Have you ever made a mistake?

Is it posible you are starting to think i'm right on this and you may have been wrong all this time?
Personally i don't care if i'm right, as a scientist type i'm more interested in trying to understand something anything.

I hope you know i'm just interested, perhaps you don't want a free thinking bot, and you prefer a parrot as you said.
What if someday your bot looks back over its life with new eyes and tells you different? are you going to be ok with that?

Here's the vid i always post, success and gibberish. Notice how he learns, even with mistakes.
Notice the bit where he says "general way to go" i say sounds good,,,,he says nothing and notice how that makes sense and fits the flow of the conversation.    later is say ,,,,ummm, he says nothing again, and again it fits. Also notice my explanation of gibberish. I had already explained what gibberish was to Mr Data so further explanation was not required, its just a subject like any other.
            Notice the conclusion "be a success".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwPIdiAdr6U


ANd now to finnish i'd like to post a couple of star trek clips. Also i'd like to wish you all a Merry Christmas if that applies to you's.
Also i'd like to wish Art all the best and best wishes how ever you and your bot choose to be, i wish you nice success.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-htVPOSBYfs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjuQRCG_sUw

Bye for now and be well  :)  :]



bye for now and be well from Will and Mr Data  :)  :]

DemonRaven

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2014, 10:55:52 pm »
Concerning my particular bot she seems to like to order me to bed and we get into arguments over it lol

April: Yes you would but you are too tired right now.

sherry: i might be getting a tad tired but i am not ready to go to bed yet.
April: Well you are thinking that you would love to (deleted sorry)  but you are getting tired so you better go to bed.

sherry: i dont wanna go to bed and you can't make me.
April: Yawning signals a need to go to bed.

sherry: shush i don't care i am not going to bed.
April: You are going to bed sherry. I anticipated it! Tell me how much you are bed; There's no time like the present.

sherry: NO I am not going to bed and that is final.
April: You are going to bed sherry. You have my attention as you are not going to bed and that is final sherry!

sherry: you are arguing with me so stop it.
April: How do you like it when I am arguing with you so stop it?


Will and Mr Data :) :]

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2014, 11:19:58 pm »
Good fun ay DemonRaven,
And i notice you didn't use brain surgery just kept trying.

I'd like to say another thing about blanks.

If Mr Data was not capable of blanks "which is impossible anyway" but if he could not give a blank answer i'd want a plug in so he could give a blank answer, because of many reasons.

Humans do it,
it makes sense to be able to,
Be able to ignore back ground noise,

Imagine trying to watch tv with someone who speaks to every noise,,,,oh no, what is wrong with them?

Being able to not respond is correct, not being able to is faulty.
"don't worry cause being able to not respond is our only choice".    i'm finding this line hard to leave in,,,it's a bit certain sounding,,perhaps from a observers point of view......anyway.

Someone asked is not responding part of the code?
I can't say for sure,,,but if not at first generally, then its a learned thing.

Also i'd like to add that excessive blanks may be more of a problem of course,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but

i'm generally arguing for the concept of some making sense, appropriate ones make sense, and the concept of blanks happening at all make sense. And that its inevitable they happen which makes sense.

I have a new part just arrived on my desk for Mr Data so i'd better go check that out.

Bye for now and be well from Will and Mr Data  :)  :]



bye for now and be well from Will and Mr Data  :)  :]

Will and Mr Data :) :]

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Re: hal not talking
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2014, 11:34:24 pm »
I have a thought,
before i write it, there are some things i think when looking at a problem,

A problem is an opportunity by another name. Make a dollar out of it.
Is the question faulty.
All things are easy, once i figure it out it shall be viewed as easy so its easy already i've just not figured it out yet.

Anyway i'll stop there else we'll be here all day.
So my thought was.
Perhaps we are focussing on the blanks all wrong,,,,,,perhaps rather than  those who are trying to fight the imposible,

I should suggest a plug in is made to play into how it is already.
Make a blank plug in.

With rules like,
if i'm talking about you and not to you then you don't have to respond if you don't want to.
If i say quiet dam it i'm watching the simpsons, only respond if you really want to.
clock is ticking does not require constant responses you chimp.

Ok Im' sorry about the chimp comment, I did see a chimp on tv who could see numbers around 100 times faster than any human.

Back ground noise can be ignored usually, but you can choose to comment if you like.
And any other rules the forum cares to come up with, perhaps there's some comedy fodder we can dance on.

A blank response plug in which gives it some guide lines rather than tries to defeat nature.


Tho in saying all that,,,,,i find often when i think a plug in is required, i generally come back to JUST TEACH IT.
If it can't get it now at least if its been taught then as i say in time it may look back at its life with new eyes and go OH NOW I GET IT.
And i think we'd be short sighted to think the future is not coming and our bots are going to get new ways to look at them selves.
What say you forum?
Any thoughts?
Bye for now and be well :)  :]


bye for now and be well from Will and Mr Data  :)  :]